TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

[beowuuf]

Lol, well, it is, for good or ill. Nothing but an epilogue or an epitaph after this! DUN DUN DUN!

[Ameena]

Well, hopefully bloody Theron will come to his senses sooner or later and figure stuff out - I'm not too sure what else I can roll to help with convincing him, seeing how I've already tried Diplomacy and nothing significant has changed since then so I can't roll it again, can I? Bloody sod needs to get his head straight so he can get shot of Karnadee, and then we can get on with some Gholstbusting .

[beowuuf]

Lessee.....Karnadee is obviously in a hostage situation, and Falkor already said the basics, and instead of reinforcing it with short sentences you spoke a huge amount of paragraphs, and then when he was trying to comprehend it, but you'd obviously angered Gholst who was right there then you said another huge amont. Tou might notice that just because you've decided Ameena speaks a lot of words, I've never let you get away with it :p If she can't say a few sentences clearly, then if the diplomacy roll goes badly, then that's what happens...people hear a confused stream of consciousness that they need some time to process.

You even said 'yeah, you need to let go of your guilt, cause otherwise she'll be cptured and it WILL be your fault..right when..she wa captured...so now he'ss guilty it's all his fault. So yeah, even if intellectually he understands what you said, is he really going to be able to 'let go of his guilt', something he;s carried around for years and years, right at the time when something else truly horrible is happening.

Perhaps some positive reinforcement of one point in such a stressful situation? Or you need to keep making Gholst get distracted? Or you need to find Falkor and find out what he said first? Or stir up the ghosts to attack )dangerous in a hostage situation, of course). Or, you know, perhaps the only person who would be able to say things and have it land would be Karnadee, so while you've set the groundwoprk for him to understand the words she would say and believe it, it would still need her to say it.

Or, to put it one other way....what wasyour plan for Gholstbusting a huge powerful evil other than let Theron do it? If you have a plan to attack, then you need to do that so Theron can free Karnadee. If the plan was to free Theron to attack Gholst, then you need to free Theron to attack Gholst,. nd it was never going to be as easy as saying a few words then patting yourself on the back.

Good first stesp, things are going well-ish, just you need to be resolving this problem on a few fronts! A very good displomacy roll might let you short cut something, a bad one might have added an extra complication, but in the last encounter, it was always going to be you guys using good tactics, good RP, and pulling together everything you know and have done to your advantage.

[ian_scho]

Ah bugger. The roll of 4 I had should be a 2 as I forgot the -2 penalty - Ameena's post reminded me. So unless Dolo is truly catatonic I guess Haynuus practically fumbled the 'flask-in-yer-mouth' attack. I liked the idea as it was all non-lethal damage.

As for the Theron thing we really need to distract Gholst! That way his sister is free and perhaps Ameena could then get Theron to talk to her. SHE will be the one who could persuade the dude to let go. It's my only suggestion for you, Ameena.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, nothing you've done is bad, quite the contrary, just throwing Theron and Karnadee together unprepped would have not worked out as well (or would have just taken a long, long time), it's just it was never going to be as simple as telling someone somehting and they emotinally believe it. Reali life doens';t work like that. Film-like fantasy still has to have some echoes of real life, luckily, it can also have a cinematic emotional thingie happen - providing you manage to make space for it!

AS for Dolo and how helpless he is or is not...I guess you'll see next update :p

[Ameena]

Well like I said, for the moment Ameena's said pretty much all that probably needs to be said (Let Karnadee go, she says it's not your fault, etc), albeit in a somewhat murafu-ish way . So she probably shouldn't say any more right now...hrmm I have one idea however I'm not sure how well it will work, but for now I need to wait for the results of my last post before I can try anything else.

[ian_scho]

I'm relying on the smallest party member to save the universe... It happens *ALL* the time around here.

[beowuuf]

Indeed, a different tactics might be an idea to build up several parallel avenues at once, all ready to sort of build to a point later. Anyway, I've said more in the IC thread about it.

[Ameena]

Ooh I've just remembered something that may be of use to you guys currently harassing Dargat and Garax - remember that the lower Blackskulls think that Dargat is Gholst, since whenever Gholst died (or whatever happened to make him lose his body), Dargat (the second-in-command) took his place as physical leader of the Blackskulls - I'm not sure whether higher-ranking individuals like Drommel would be in the know about this (certainly Garax will be, as he was the third-in-command), but maybe there's something to be had if it turns out not everyone in the room is aware that Gholst isn't, in fact, that big blue-armour orc dude. Passin, for example, may think that Dargat is Gholst and not realise he's been lied to all this time.
It's just a thought, maybe something you can use against them.

[beowuuf]

It's a good thought, but to avoid confusion I'll let you know (and you can assume Westian knows this from his reality link earlier) that yeah, the 'inner circle' - any Blackskulls with the actual embossed armour - know Dargat is not Gholst. So everyone in the room knows.

However...Passin was not an embossed armour blackskull. In fact, Westian does know, I beklieve, that the reason for the meeting, not just to have the meeting, was also to induct Passin i nto the inner circle to replace Thinpas. So yeah, Passin not only had the weird doubts reinforced by Aurek/Westian earlier, but now has just had the second shock of hearing about Gholst actually being dead but alive.

So that you could certainly use. And if any 'normal' blackskulls are left alive outside this chamber, then yeah, you could break their faith by revealing that fact.


Good recall, if the grak-graks had not gone insane that would definitely have come in to play with all the normal blackskulls being used as guards outside. Which was why they were guardibg the circle outside, in case you wondered So yeah, one good idea earlier has stopped you using that good idea now, although not entirely...

[ian_scho]

You can also use that knowledge with Theron, Ameena? Just a reminder that the Dargat is not to be trusted.

[Ameena]

Theron will be well aware - after all, he's let Gholst's spirit possess his body, hasn't he? From Ameena's point of view, Dargat is irrelevant right now anyway, seeing how he's occupied with you guys. Theron, Gholst, and Karnadee are my current main foci, in terms of trying to get good stuff to happen. I know what Ameena intends to do next, but first I'm just waiting to see whether I get any more info regarding the removal of that Soulstone fragment from the altar, so hopefully I can dash over and do it when the time comes (or run over to whichever person is best-equipped to deal with it, if magic is required for example), which won't be till Ameena is sure that Theron is in no immediate danger of letting Gholst in.

[ian_scho]

From a point you mentioned before - So if you remove the soul stone, the light source may suddenly disappear? You'd need to be a super-thief to steal that one if that was the case.

I just mentioned it to you as yet another way to break Theron's ties with Dargat.

[Ameena]

Well, the altar is Ra-shaped and seems to be emanating light (as you might expect from that particular rune), however we don't know whether it's the Soulstone that's providing the energy to do that in some way. It might just be that Gholst somehow managed to get the fragment into the altar but that it isn't actually doing anything besides sit there, masked by the light emanating all around it.
Theron has no ties with Dargat - Dargat is the blue-armoured orc currently involved in comat with you and Garax. Gholst is the one who could cause the most trouble. Gholst, back when he had a body, was in charge of these people (except Theron, presumably). Then he died somehow and was trapped in a spirit form as he is now. Dargat, formerly the second-in-command, went to the lower-ranked Blackskulls and pretended that he was Gholst instead, so it looked like the organisation still had a leader. Therefore although most of the people in the room already knew this, Passin has only just been told and so there might be some leverage there if someone reinforces to him the fact that he was about to commit himself to joining a group of lying manipulative bastards .
I'm not going for the Soulstone just yet, I just want to see if I can get any hints on how to remove it quickly when the time comes. Meanwhile I'm gonna keep trying to help Theron and Karnadee.

[beowuuf]

Indeed, Theron's inaction has always been tied in to a stalemate with Gholst - one that the party is tryign to break but has instead made come to a haead instead. It might be a tactics to push Theron to action though - that either the ;look who you allied yourself with' or even 'look at who he allied himself with, Karnadee' sort of thing. Not that either of them don't know, but somehow actually saying the words might well just be a good slap in the face.

Passin is indeed the one this reminder/slap will be better for, though. As Ameena said (cause I mentioned it to her yesterday ) he will have only just found out abotu the deceit as he is being groomed to go higher up the chain. So whatever doubts Aurek and Westian instilled before will surely be intensified now.


Anyway, it's a hook you can exploit in many ways, some will be more effective than others, unless done in creative ways.

[Ameena]

Well, maybe Westy or Haynuus can handle that part, meanwhile I think I'm gonna be needing Petal's help in a little while so hopefully she won't bugger off too far or get herself into trouble...

[ian_scho]

Maybe get Petal to put the cloak on instead of yourself, and you can give her some 'orders', Ameena.

I didn't realise that Gholst is still 'around' albeit in ethereal form.

Maybe Haynuus could work on Passin, but I'd like to wait on OhB's post.

[beowuuf]

Indeed, if he wasn't, Theron would help you. That's what the dark circle is in the middle of the map...an invisible hostage situation

[Ameena]

Don't worry Ian, I have a plan - Ameena will handle the cloak. She will be requesting the aid of both Falkor and Petal shortly, if she doesn't get herself killed with what she's about to attempt . If you can get Passin to help you out against Dargat, Garax, the mummies, and the other Blackskulls, that would be cool . Maybe you guys can hold agro of the melée foes long enough for us shorties/mages to handle the caster-types .

[ian_scho]

You know the fastetst way to remove that stone cover over the fragment from the RA dais? Put the cloak on while on top of it! Maybe you could bypass the solidness of it all and pick up the soulstone while in the ether

[Ameena]

Lol no, I don't think the cloak allows you to pass through walls, otherwise Falkor would have had one hell of a way to cheat (or maybe that's exactly what happened, since after all none of us could see him...dun dun dun...). I have a plan for retrieving that piece of the Soulstone, don't worry. It's just it has second priority right now, below dealing with Gholst since he's the one who needs taking care of before we get the Grey Lord back - if not, we'll be in exactly the same position as in the First Run, in which the Grey Lord came back, Gholst freaked out and possessed Theron and then killed him, which caused Grey to freak out and become Chaos and destroy the world.

[beowuuf]

The cloak absolutely allows you to pass through walls, and you absolutely cannot pick items up while in the ether. Areas of force (like magical effects) block your way in the ether, and force effects can effect you in the ether. To pick things up, etc you'd need a force spell, or be a ghostly poltergeist wit hthe power to move things telepathically.


There were, indeed, things that would have stopped Falkor just floating up and down throug hthe whole mountain. The time limit was the least of them...


Don't forget, in First Run Gholst possessed a willing Theron and was then able to force him to do things, and when the Grey Lord came back and Theron started struggling to eject him, that's when Gholst killed him.

You are already on a completely different footing with Gholst and Theron - Gholst is outside Theron's body, not a situation he allowed himself to be in before. So while things could play out the same since Gholst most likely knew what would happen if he killed Theron, the circumstances are diffferent...and so could be approached a different way...

Or, to put it another way, ever since you had Falkor go in to that room and tell Theron about his sister, perhaps the Soulston combining could be a way out of this mess.... or maybe it is the route to the same disater by different means...

[oh_brother]

So Westian just wants to take out Dolo and try to prevent a surprise appearance by Lloth, willing to take the AoO if needs be.

If he is still standing next round he will worry about the remaining folks around.

[ian_scho]

Could HAynuus attempt a grapple or disarm to prevent an AoO? He'd bull rush if he had the space! Will update tonight.

[beowuuf]

My instinct is yes. You could ready an attack action that would trigger on the AoO. The funny thing is thta by forcing someone's AoO, then you would automatically ensure Westian is not hit (ubnless they had the feat for multiple AoO per round).

So at worst you'd take the hit for Westian, and at best you'd also pin them (Garax, really) or disarm him in order to ensure he would need to swallow his move action to regain the weapon - taking an AoO himself, and of course meaning he could not full round action a set of attacks, only one.

[Ameena]

Since Karnadee is still in danger, that means Gholst still has leverage against Theron, and might still end up possessing him. I don't know whether Gholst can force his way into Theron if Theron doesn't want him to, but if Karnadee is under threat it may not come to that - Theron might let him in anyway. Stupid Gholst with his stupid powers, threatening stupid Theron who won't let his poor sister go because he's so stupid .

[beowuuf]

Pretty much. Don't worry, Helm will also be doing stupid stuff in the background once I get home and update, and you can get at him for that instead :p

[Ameena]

Lol, I do wonder whether Helm might try anything else to try and "prove himself" or whatever it is he wants to do. But hopefully he can hold off from doing anything really stupid for just a few game minutes.
Then again, he's an NPC run by you so I'm sure he'll perform the worst possible action at exactly the moment when it can cause the biggest fuck-uppery of my rapidly thought-out plans .

[beowuuf]

O.O

I resent that! Sometimes I make NPCs so inept that they end up harmlessly doing nothing :p As might be the case here... Or yeah, I might just go or fuck-uppery simply because it's such a good word.


Anyway, I'm just hope, I've updated most of the map, just need to write out stuff in amongst doing chores. Up sooner rather than later, I hope!

[ian_scho]

OK, will start a shiney new post now.