Legend of Grimrock

[beowuuf]

To change the subject completely, patch has been released with autosave/load, the ability to change tooltip delay, and some other minor features/bug fixes

[Gambit37]

Yup, just saw that. Think I might start a new game with the new patch, and try a different party setup. I did 2 fighters and 2 mages on the first run, might eschew magic entirely this time and go with rogue... though I think it might make more sense to have 2 fighters, one rogue, one mage.

[beowuuf]

That's the default set up, and it worked out ok for me. Playig an easy game with a new party, two fighteers two mages. Fun to have the boom boom, but goodness do they run out of energy fast if you try to specialise. Must admit my mage had the lowest experience gain in the end, not sure what subtle modifiers are included to change the XP split. Even with the XP gain necklace he lagged behind the rest!

[Gambit37]

Yeah, the thing I don't like about the magic system is how it automatically chews up more energy at higher levels to make stronger spells. I know it makes gameplay simpler, but sometimes I might not want to launch such a powerful attack.

With two mages the "enchant arrows" spells are utterly useless, but they make sense with one mage and one rogue. However, I'm not sure I can be arsed with all the inventory management that arrows entail. At least the auto-pickup is a god send

[beowuuf]

My rogue went dagger/assassination to backstab from the rear rank The pikes from the skeletons are also fun reach weapons at the start of the game. It seems to be an underappreciated vector!


To change the subject completely again, more kind words regarding Grimrock, and also a kick against EA for those who were debating it earlier thrown in!
http://www.gamefront.com/legend-of-grim ... e-a-gamer/

[Gambit37]

Excellent article, pretty much sums up how I feel too.

[beowuuf]

Oh, and as a final tangent, the reset game AH linked to a while back still shows movement in its development:
http://reset-game.net/

[Ricolen]

Glad to hear that there's unlockables. I didn't realize you could unlock anything. Right now I'm playing with a rogue that's about to hit lvl 12 and the rest of my group has a combined 300 exp.

I have to say I was completely blown away at a puzzle I came across where shooters were timed fire of slowly at first and then in rapid succession, and in order to open a door I had to block every one of the "zo" spells (I'll call them that for lack of a better name) from hitting their targets behind me, lest I get transported out of the room and the puzzle is reset. It's such a simple idea, available all these years, yet so complex to execute and genius to have come up with it, because I've never seen anyone else do it. Completely awesome.

I love the article posted where they talk about this game flying in the face of convention. I think NEW Super Mario Brothers did a very similar thing though going back to the original side scrolling formula that made the game big in the first place. I'm just very happy to see that this genre isn't dead. Now if I could just get a new release of Kings Quest or Quest for Glory in it's original form, I'd be in 80's gamer heaven. lol

I think my only dissagreement I found in that article came to the comments below where they talked about how this game was better than Mass Effect... I think the voice acting in that game was superb, and TBH it's the best game trilogy I've ever played so long as the ending is fixed like they say it will be. My whole life, I've always wanted to write a fantasy novel(s) and then have them coverted to a baldur's gate kind of game. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are the proof that what I've always wanted to accomplish is actually something someone else would like (so long as the quality of my work was good).

I just think the industry should keep things in perspective too. Games like Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, and now Legend of Grimrock are just as enjoyable for what they bring to the table as massive, big budget games like Mass Effect or WoW. The more choices in genre gamers have to choose from, the better for everyone. I'm really thankful to finally see a game like Grimrock released again after this genre being all but dead (except in communities like this) for so many years.

[Ricolen]

BTW was I the only Dungeon Master fan that looked at Grimrock's "blue haze" in awe for how great it looked and how true it was to the Dungeon Master original?

[raixel]

Ricolen, do you mean the teleporter? Yeah, its pretty neat, and the light effects it causes are even neater.

Please use the spoiler button when you talk about parts of the actual game, like areas, puzzles and their solutions and stuff. I haven't gotten to the area you were at, and I now I know the answer to the puzzle. If you don't know how to use the tags, just select the area you want to spoiler tag and press the spoiler button. It blacks out the text

Spoiler

like this

so you have to click on it to read it.

Yay autosave! Finally!

[raixel]

And as for other Ai behaviours, the archers and good at firing and retreating, as are certain other spellcasters

Yeah, but I've noticed an AI error/glitch with archers that goes like this. Party in an alcove or other area with walls to the left and right. An archer is kitty corner to my front, either side doesnt matter. The archer steps in front of me, turns to face me. Archer then sees I am right in front of them then turns away and steps back onto a kitty corner square without attacking at all! And keeps doing it over and over. Ive killed so many archers this way. Its like the retreat script conflicts with the attack script, so the step out to attack you, see that you are within melee range and retreat. Over and over.

They should take a step back from the 1st position, then step over and turn to face you.

[Gambit37]

Yep, agreed, there are numerous AI flaws which really need to be sorted as they break the believability of the experience.

[beowuuf]

Maybe best actually list ther issues and what you think could be done to tweak them? I think neither the dither nor the retreat should be eliminated, perhaps there is a 'bravery' component that either needs tweaked, or needs added, where a monster actually takes a shot (spellcasters) before retreating again, and a ditherng monster dithers less and moves more to an attack position. Certainly the mages don't dither as much, sliding sideways in combat. I think crabs dither a lot too, though they also have the same trick up their sleeve. So I think rather than a flaw that needs addressed it's a balance in behaviour that needs tweaked.

Certainly eliminating the dither would make creatures erither two aggressive - think of the end bosses final behaviour - or two easy to dance around. The dither and retreat as part of the Ai makes the monsters a harder to dominate, and if toned down a touch I don't imagine would feel like an issue?

[Darklord]

Wow what a great game! I finally finished last night, so I guess I'll be going back to my DM playthrough soon, on the other hand replaying on hard with new portraits is so tempting!

Incidentally fans have released updated DM portraits and converted them for use with LoG, here's the link!

http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1946

Daniel.

[linflas]

Let's troll this a bit..
Most of these portraits (except DM enhanced ones) are crappy crops from various Deviant Art bitmaps.
Today, I also decide to reveal what i don't like in Grimrock. Sorry for the graphician who made them, but he's just excellent at "all the rest" but not at 2D portraits. Something is missing, they look too... dull, drab, tasteless.

[Ameena]

It would have been nice to have a greater selection of potraits to choose from at character gen, that's true - right now you're particularly limited if you want to make an entire party of same-race, non-human characters . But I'm sure they'll add in the ability to make your own at a later date, and then we'll be swamped .

[beowuuf]

It's already possible with the latest patch, hence the reason Grimrock forums are getting so many avatar pictures posted now

[RAF68]

d'accord avec toi linflas et en plus il sont peux nombreux

[Darklord]

Let's troll this a bit..
Most of these portraits (except DM enhanced ones) are crappy crops from various Deviant Art bitmaps.

It was specifically the DM ones I thought you would be interested in. Nice trolling though!

Daniel.

[Darklord]

I've also found Gambit37's link to just the DM portraits.

http://www.mediafire.com/?x4bz5zzxgo5dx0s

Daniel.

[beowuuf]

Hey, you got mod status over at the Grimrock forums! Cool!

[Darklord]

Aye I chat so much over there I reckon they decided I may as well make myself useful!

I played a bit of DM earlier, struggling to get back into it...

Daniel.

[beowuuf]

Lol, afte5r LoG it will be a different feel I assume

[Darklord]

It doesn't help that I've forgotten where I am or what I am doing! I've just killed a rat and found stairs going down, so I guess that's the way onwards, dunno if I'm missing something from this level or not though. I can't even recall what level I'm on!

It is different but there are some bits of DM I still prefer, I do like the leveling system based on using the spells/fighting etc.

Daniel.

[beowuuf]

You're at the very end of level 9 - if down the stairwell there is a wall text saying 'beware my twisted huour' you are on the start opf level 10, and also liekly to get blasted by wizard eyes! Be careful! Also, maybe go and explore upstairs and make sure you found a skeleton key hole close to a nice little 2 x 3 room with a fountain


I do like being able to 'multi-class' in DM, but the skill point customisation of LoG is still fun to play around with.

[raixel]

beo, you and me are typo kings! Although...My left hand is messed up. Whats your excuse? .

Ug. I just fought my way out of the area in lev 5 where you p

Spoiler

ick up the key and then get mobbed by monsters, while the door closes behind you

. It took me 8 tries! Does anyone know if Steam updated the patch yet? I went to the main site cuz I really want autosave/load due to me dying constantly and it said if you d/led it off steam, it has to be patched thru steam.

Im waaaaaiiiting!

[Ameena]

The game already autosaves, when you click the big blue crystal thingy (which I've only done about twice in the whole game so far, lol). Did they add in more autosave spots or something?

[Darklord]

Yeah the Steam version went live on Saturday. It a full download though.

Daniel.

[beowuuf]

@Ameena: Quick save/load buttons are in the new patch, where you can just press a button and save and press a button that reload.

[Ameena]

Ahh, quicksave! Everyone's been saying autosave so I got confused, lol.
Haven't booted up the game for several days now - I'm at the top of the stairs leading down to Level 6. Presumably the patch will, err, patch when I load up the game - I didn't download it through Steam but from that standalone installer thingy. I should get around to playing it later today. If not then I'm off for two weeks so I've got plenty of time .