Sheer Olympic insanity in London?

[raixel]

Um. So I heard that London went kinda ballistic with the Olympic Security. I just wanted to ask some of you British folks about it, cuz the reports we're getting out here seem kinda...nuts. Or overblown, or something. Hopefully overblown.

So is it true there's really some kind of electrified fence around the game locations? And soldiers in the streets, and thermographic cameras watching people? I know you guys already have one of the most crazy spy-on-you Orwellian CCTV systems in the world, but I heard it got updated with facial recognition systems and a bunch of other stuff like thermographic imaging and the ability to recognize people so as they walk around the different cameras can pick them up.

Oh, also some kind of SAM (surface to air missiles) stuck on top of inhabited apartment buildings in case of suicide plane attacks (or maybe just to keep athletes from getting crapped on by birds during the gold medal ceremony- I'm not too sure)?

When i was at a bar with a friend this weekend, a huge discussion started between random tables of strangers about this stuff. People were saying that all this stuff happened, then other people were saying it was severely exaggerated. iPhones were brought out, and people started searching webpages for information. The general consensus seemed to be *shiver* "I'm glad I live in Seattle, cuz if they tried to pull that here there'd be mobs in the streets wreaking havok."

So, really, could someone who lives over there actually tell me what is going on? So when random crowds of Seattlelites start going off I can just smile and say "Well, my British internet buddies said this..."

And if it is true, what do you all feel about this? The thought of that kind of stuffchills me to the core. I don't think Ive heard the word "Orwellian" used to describe anything quite so much in my life.

Not that where I live is perfect. But us West Coasters dont generally like the government (overtly) being ham fisted with the seecurity stuff and have a tendency to start throwing fits when it happens. (see: guy in Portland Oregon whostripped naked in protest of TSA's invasive security procedures. He was later found not guilty of indecent exposure or lewd acts (which he was charged with)due to the fact that the court recognized his disrobing as an act of protest and not an act designed to harass or get sexual gratification. So, you can be naked in protest in the Nortwest USA. WOO! )

And sorry if this is already being discussed elsewhere. I couldnt find anything, but I have been quite busy lately and havent been reading everything as thoroughly as I usually do.

[Jan]

I think the politicians are very scared of a terrorist attack. Apparently they try to do as much as they can (or try to look that they do so) so that if something really happened (and I do hope nothing of that kind happens) nobody could blame them they did too little. The tensions are really high now, especially the recent row of bombing and shooting attacks between Iran and Israel (last one in Bulgaria a few weeks ago though I'm not sure if these really were the Iranians) + you still have there a bunch of nuts able to blow themselves and others up to drive the UK out of Afghanistan.

But I agree with you that putting a helicopter carrier on the River Thames and an amphibious assault ship to the south coast to look after the yachts can seem a little bit... disproportional.

On the other hand, Britain is the cradle of democracy and freedom so someone from the Czech Republic, with our excellent record of coups, revolutions and tyrannies, should really just shut up and watch (the games) + hope that Brits sort this out somehow as they already did.

Oh, I can't resist to become less serious, sorry for that:

Oh, also some kind of SAM (surface to air missiles)

You probably mean the Rapier SAM. Don't worry. Although they've been much improved since the Falklands '82 they still usually tend to either misfire or try to engage the sun.

I've also heard that they had wanted to put one Type 45 air-defence destroyer on the River Thames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer) but when the politicians heard that "the SAMPSON radar is capable of tracking an object the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound" they became worried that this would endanger the tennis tournament (shooting down all the balls) so they decided to send the destroyer to the Gulf instead to make Mr. Ahmadinejad a little bit more cautious in his wrangling.

[raixel]

Hey, I thought I lived in the cradle of freedom and democracy(at least if you are lucky enough to live here or we like you. Otherwise we'll just invade you or replace you with a puppet government)? *ruffles her west-coat freedom-loving American feathers*.

Americans love freedom so much they even renamed french fries (chips) to 'freedom fries" during that ultra patriotic sickening upswing during the Bush years after 9/11 when the French told us we were nuts for going into Iraq(god they were so right, and 90% of the American people knew it, except for the idiots who went around renaming french fries)! It was a move that was widely ridiculed out here, Especially by my 20-something half-French Canadian self who ran around going "Im a freedom Canadian, freedom kiss me and ill use my freedom tickler on you!"

In any case though, I find the Olympics sickening at least the fact that grandmas are getting in trouble for knitting dolls with the Olympic Rings on them to raise money at a church sale. And there's special OLympic lanes for those who can afford the 3000$ tickets. It just seems to me to be a giant orgy of commercialization. Seriously. Check this out: http://www.nationalpost.com/related/top ... story.html. Nothing says "international brotherhood" like electrified security fences, curfews, grandmas in trouble, and armed guards.

Terrorist attacks suck. But so does seriously curtailing civil liberties in the name of being "safe" and turning a city into a police state. I mean, if you instituted a curfew, monitored your citizens with cameras 24/7, everyone that went outside had to wear a placard saying where they were going and why, instituted random search and seizures and armed military guards on every corner it would be a lot safer. But it would suck. Oh wait, I think Orwell already wrote about that. I also read that British are like 1% of the world population, but have 20% of the public-filming CCTV cameras in the entire world, the most anywhere. Even more than like China or other dicatatorships. But I think London isnt really any safer than any other huge international city. I mean, people still get stabbed and mugged and raped and stuff, right? The bigger question is what are they going to do with the updated CCTV cameras afterwards? Im sure they arent just going to go back to the old ones. Also I heard that the main point of these security cameras wasnt to cgeck for terrorists, but to make sure people werent drinking Pepsi in the "Olympic Brand only" zones or trying to sell Olympic merchandise that wasnt licensed

And the fact that they put all the SAMs and stuff in the poor areas. Try doing that in the rich sections. But no, who cares if a bunch o' working class sods in their little flats get bits of missile or plane parts crashing to the ground around/on them? Also, some ploitical science type guys said that making such an overt over the top security ring might actually attract terrorist organizations who wish to make a name for themselves, cuz imagine the cred you'd get at your local terrorist coffee-house if your group managed to actually get something in there.

I understand the need for security. But really, did it have to be so overt and over the top? Its been a giant topic of conversation out here lately about to what lengths are appropriate to keep a populace safe and also the impression that it gives other people. And also Ive been hearing a lot of "I hope to god Seattle never gets the olympics, cuz if they tried that crap out here, there would be riots in the streets".

[Gambit37]

As a Brit, and currently a Londoner, I can't say I've met anyone recently who thinks the Olympics are all-out wonderful.

Sure, it brings money into the country, and we sure need that right now, but beyond that the way it's been rammed down our throats is not only insulting and ridiculous, it's also setting scary precedents. For example, Olympic Branding Police (as hinted at above) have severely hampered normal people's engagement in what's supposed to a nationally uplifting two weeks of feel-good camaraderie. It's nuts that a school féte or church sale can't make Olympic branded home-made items to raise money for their own good causes. The amount of money made by the sponsors is so far in the stratosphere compared to meagre profits made at church sales, there is *no way* they are being financially hurt by "Olympic trademark violations." It's just so insane.

And don't get me on the whole missile crisis. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so darn OTT. Read these:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18766547
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18797085

These Olympics have set precedents for a world that I don't want to live in.

[Sophia]

Chicago (where I live) was in the running to get the Olympics.
But anyway after all this I'm glad we didn't...

The IOC is sort of stupid and crazy when it comes to their trademark enforcement, and because of the amount of money and prestige involved countries bend over backwards for them. For example, the RPG "Legend of the Five Rings" was ordered to change its logo because apparently the IOC owns the trademark on every single symbol involving five interlocking rings in existence. Even though the L5R symbol had them arrayed in a pentagonal sort of arrangement and looked nothing like the olympic logo at all. And courts uphold this crap because of politics.

[Gambit37]

That's just nuts! I am going to put some kind of crazy puzzle that mocks the IOC in my forthcoming DSB dungeon

Also, far from the Olympics bringing in extra retail income, it seems to have had the opposite effect!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19059880

[beowuuf]

Well the branding issue was also in the torch running - it was a shame that in ever town, no local sponsors could invest in and advertise during the torch parade, even though that would stimulate each local economy. Only the two main sponsors...

Still, how much of the security is our government, and how much is pressure from countries externally? For example, I noticed that all the announcements in the olympic opening were made in french first... that seems like something that was leveraged diplomatically.

I guess the Frnch didn't try to sneak a dog through customs this time

[Jan]

No argument here, I agree with everything that's been said about the surveillance state. I just want to put the things in a more global perspective and to provoke, of course.

Hey, I thought I lived in the cradle of freedom and democracy

(at least if you are lucky enough to live here or we like you. Otherwise we'll just invade you or replace you with a puppet government)

You know, from a Central European historical perspective, it's actually for many many reasons much better to have American than Russian tanks in the streets. Of course it's best to have no tanks in streets at all (except water tanks perhaps) but a small country in a fragile region sort of gets invaded from time to time and it's simply much better to be invaded by tanks with white stars on the sides than by those with red stars.

Americans love freedom so much they even renamed french fries (chips) to 'freedom fries"

The point is that these were actually Belgian fries but because they came from the French-speaking part of Belgium people thought they were from France.

the French told us we were nuts for going into Iraq(god they were so right, and 90% of the American people knew it

I don't have the figures at hand right now but surely the public support for the invasion in Iraq in 2003 was much higher in the US - if not overwhelming (lower than in case of Afghanistan in 2001 but still quite high).

Even more than like China or other dicatatorships

But still, in 2012, Freedom House rates freedom in the UK as 1 (Political Rights 1, Civil Liberties 1) and in China 6,5 (PR 7, CL 6 - with a deteriorating trend!) (1 = best, 7 = worst).

But no, who cares if a bunch o' working class sods in their little flats get bits of missile or plane parts crashing to the ground around/on them?

A misfired missile (or it's debris) or a shot-down plane usually doesn't fall on the missile launcher because you simply usually don't launch Rapier missiles vertically. So it's actually quite likely that a plane shot down by a missile fired from a "poor" street falls onto a "rich" street.

I guess the Frnch didn't try to sneak a dog through customs this time

That's because Mr. Hollande is currently not married so there's no official "first lady" to give a doggie to HM. But I'm pretty sure MI5 can sneak some explosives to the French embassy as usually. Or send in a gunboat, perhaps?

[raixel]

Not to hijack this thread (that I started) cuz I still really want to talk about the Olympic stuff, but I have to say that youve got your figures backwards. The invasion of Iraq was under no circumstances supported by most of the American people even in 2003. Andespecially not overwhelmingly. Afghanistan was, though. At least somewhat cuz thats where the bad guys were based. But Iraq, hell no. Everyone that wasn't a right-wing war nut was going "Are they f'n insane?" over here. Bush and Cheney had the worst approval rating in the history of America for that fiasco.

So, yeah, I just wanted to clear that up.

Yeah, the UK is great a far as civil rights go (at least in everything but getting video taped walking down the street). Thats what's so insane about the quasi military police state that has suddenly appeared for the Olympics. Its kinda like wait, what? No, you guys are cool and totally into this whole "civil rights" thing, so did your government just collectively go nuts? I would have expected to hear these kinda things when they were in China (and there was some). But hearing about it in Britain is like hearing about it in Canada.

I was talking with a friend about it yesterday. He made the point that if there was a credible threat it would be a teensy bit more understandable. And he means credible. Not just "Oh, the Israelis are here and like 3/4ths of the Middle East hates them and might try something, so we are gonna put a bunch of tanks and missiles and fences around." So, was there an actual statement released by a known (or suspected) terrorist organization or supporter *cough* Iran *cough*?

And as Sophia said, I wonder if people are going to be less inclined about having the Olympics in their city if this is the kind of stuff you can expect. I was already ambivelent about the Olympics, but after hearing about the crazy branding and security stuff, I am way against them now. The sad thing is how few people know about it, so Ive been making it my mission to tell everyone, especilaly about he Legend of the Five Rings thing. Thats just *insane*.

So have their been protests over all this insanity over there? Do the protesters get hustled off by dudes in solid black and white vans with Olympic rings on the sides?

[Jan]

The invasion of Iraq was under no circumstances supported by most of the American people even in 2003. Andespecially not overwhelmingly. Afghanistan was, though. At least somewhat cuz thats where the bad guys were based. But Iraq, hell no. Everyone that wasn't a right-wing war nut was going "Are they f'n insane?" over here. Bush and Cheney had the worst approval rating in the history of America for that fiasco.

Err... no. Check for instance the figures here: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/770/iraq-wa ... nniversary

Of course you can manipulate any public poll but Pew RC isn't the worst amongst those organisations and basically all other researches show the same trend.