Help Wanted

[Wizard Zedd]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently playing Dungeon Master (original version) for the first time and thought that I would create a new topic for me to solicit help

I am really enjoying the game and have been doing pretty good so far...have been startled several times when creatures surprise me - especially when my volume is a little too loud. Still trying to figure out more spells and to get better at the fighting aspect, but tend to be a bit of a chicken and rely on fireballs most of the time.

I am currently on level 5 and there is 4 rooms. In one of the rooms there is a button and when I press it a wall opened up and I find more buttons. I believe I have pressed them all and it seems like nothing is happening although I just got surprised by a green creature that shoots poison at me (so far this is the creature that has killed me most). He must have come from somewhere but I don't see another hallway or room or anything. I am assuming that pressing the buttons must have opened and closed something again. First question - is there a spell to protect from getting poisoned? And second question, is there a proper sequence to follow for pressing the buttons? If I have already pressed them all in the wrong order, please tell me there is a way to "reset" so I can start again - I failed to save my game before I started in this room I do have one saved not too far back, but still...

[Paul Stevens]

I have not figured out exactly where you are ( or even if you
start numbering the levels at zero ), but have no fear, you have
not dug yourself into a permanent hole by pressing the buttons
in the wrong order. Dungeon Master has no 'Dead Ends' like that.
So don't get desperate and start over.

[Wizard Zedd]

Thank you...that's good to hear.

[oh_brother]

(1) Poisoned - if you are poisoned cast

Spoiler

vi bro

into a flask, and drink.

(2) I am also not sure where you are...grave of king Filius? But I don't remember there being Swamp Slimes around there.

Anyway, good going!

[Phoenix]

It sounds like you are actually on level 4. The switches in that room move walls around. Check all the walls each time you press a button and you'll find the one you're missing. Fireball is one of the easiest ways to deal with slimes.
They are also slow, so you can run away, heal and attack.

Good luck with your game.

[Gambit37]

The Swamp Slimes are on level 5, assuming you counted the Hall of Champions as level 1.

[Phoenix]

The DM Encyclopaedia defines that level as level 4. The Hall of Champions is defined as level 0 there as well.

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=taxonomy/term/17,42

[Wizard Zedd]

Thanks everyone! I finally figured out that room I guess I was really on level 4 - I counted the hall of champions as level 1. Good to know for the next time I need to ask for help so that I can at least give you the right level I am on. I have been curing my poisoned guys, but was hoping there was some kind of shield against getting poisoned - but I will just need to be more careful. Thanks again!

[Ameena]

Some poison isn't so bad - all poison will eventually wear off (as far as I'm aware), but some lasts longer than others and may do more damage. If it's a fairly weak poison you can just wait for it to wear off (at the cost of that character not being able to regen any health since it's countered by the poison), but you're probably better off just curing it and giving someone some Priest exp in the process .
I've just thought, actually, that technically all the "poisons" in DM are venoms, not poisons...well, all those except the one given by poison clouds I suppose.

[terkio]

Indeed, it is pretty boring to cure poisoned champions.
If not in danger with too low health, they can wait for poison healing.
It' s ok to let them suffer, may be endergo more poison attacks and wait for a later poison potion.

May be, that is venom thrown by monsters, but you get poisoned.

[Wizard Zedd]

I am now in the Riddle Room area - solved the riddles but now I have big Eyeball guys firing at me - they have been able to kill my guys with one shot! Will be a while 'till I figure out how to survive these guys. I have managed to kill them with a fireball - I just need to find a way to not get hit I am having a blast playing it!

[Paul Stevens]

big Eyeball guys

'Beholders'. Quite nasty. I generally avoid them.

Spoiler

There is a well-hidden shortcut that bypasses them, as I recall.

[Phoenix]

I don't know your playing style, but DM, for the most part, isn't a game where you fight all creatures head to head.
Hit and run tactics offer the best chance at survival until you reach the Master levels. This is especially true for creatures like Deth Knights, stone golems, and dragons. This has given rise to the technique I refer to as the DM shuffle, where you try to fight in an area that has at least four floor spaces. In this case, with the creature right in front of you, you attack and then step left/right so that you are diagonal to the creature:

| - * | | - * | | = wall - = open floor * = creature(s) X = party
| - X | | X - |

The creature(s) will either move down to where your party was or across.
| - - | or | * - |
| X * | | X - |

Either way you turn your party to face the creatures, attack, and then move to an open floor tile. Repeat until the creature is dead.

I also don't recommend specializing like some players. For example, once one of my champions goes up a level in their Fighter skill, I move that champion to the back row. I don't have dedicated fighters/ninjas or wizards/priests. This makes my champions have greater stats. Dedicated fighters and ninjas have weak anti-magic, wisdom and vitality. Dedicated wizards/priests have lower health, strength, and dexterity. Near the end of the game my champions are Masters in all skills and can take/deal more damage.

I hope these tips might help you in your game.

[Ameena]

From the sounds of it, you're playing under the RTC engine, in which spell damage is somewhat different to the original (because RTC was made from scratch and doesn't use any code or anything from the original Atari/Amiga version). As such, yeah, getting one-shotted by Beholders is kind of a thing . You can't one-shot Wasps or Munchers with a Lo Fireball either . But still, it's perfectly possible to finish the game and stuff. Just make sure all your characters (however many you have) level up at least a bit in everything, so they have the hp and resists to not instantly die the moment they get plinked by a Fireball or whatever .
Like Phoenix says, hit-and-run tactics are a very good idea (and the described step-dance method is great for single mobs ). Keep at it and hopefully you'll get through .

[terkio]

And of course you have the tactic to "save the game" before and during tough fights.
Some fireball themselves ( shooting next in front of a wall ) when in trouble, for a faster restart.
It is pretty shamefull to do so, but thats the way to go at times the game is unfair. Here I think of some custom games.
The fair way to play DM, getting more fun, is to fight monsters without game saves.

And, yes, get more health. The faster way to do so is to upgrade the worst skills of your champions.

[Wizard Zedd]

Thanks to everyone for your very helpful advise and fight tactics. I really do need to practice the "DM shuffle" as when under attack I tend to panic and my fingers just don't find the right keys In reading these messages I realize that I should move my team around so that they get more experience in other levels. I really haven't had the time to play the last couple of days but hopefully once I get back to it I can put all your tips to good use. Thanks again!!

[Phoenix]

Some fireball themselves ( shooting next in front of a wall ) when in trouble, for a faster restart.

LOL, when I was playing the Atari ST version of DM, I had to break myself of the habit of advancing just after casting fireball. Yes, it is possible to launch a fireball and step right into it. It was also typically a MON fireball, so at least two members of my party would instantly die and in some cases the whole party.

[Ameena]

Haha yes, I've done that one as well. Maybe not actually killed myself in the process, but certainly caused a few injuries . I have to remember not to just charge forward immediately after casting it...and then usually forget and do it anyway .
Incidentally, if your "back row" consists of people with very few hp (say, someone like Tiggy), Screamers make good mobs to practice against, since I think they deal the least damage out of any creature (and you can use the Screamer Room for an endless supply). I also sometimes used Skeletons for that kind of practice, since they don't hurt too much either. That was back when I actually had a back row, I mean - nowadays I use only two characters. Well, I say "nowadays"...I mean, the last few times I played, which I haven't done so for a few years now. But if I did, I'd use two characters .

[Chaos-Shaman]

Thanks to everyone for your very helpful advise and fight tactics. I really do need to practice the "DM shuffle" as when under attack I tend to panic and my fingers just don't find the right keys

it's the best thing to learn Wizard Zed, once your fingers get use to it, you'll find it much easier.

[Wizard Zedd]

My issue is that a creature startles me and I panic I am working on it - baby steps at improving, but improving just the same

[Chaos-Shaman]

have no fear, learn to die and come back with a vengeance. one thing that players will miss with spells is the close attack bitmaps. sometimes I just stand there to watch the attack just to see it.

[Wizard Zedd]

Oh, I' have died many times now Those big yellow eyeball guys are deadly! I just kept killing one and saving, kill another and save and finally got through the room I have been sort of stuck in for a while now. So now off to new areas and probably more of these creatures and tougher ones no doubt. Still having fun!

[Ameena]

If you're playing under RTC then yeah, Beholders really hurt . I was getting downed by them in a couple of shots and got stuck on one level because they'd practically kill me so I'd have to retreat to rest (it was by the level entrance so I had to go back upstairs to be safe), but in coming back again I presume there was a hidden trigger to respawn them, so I ended up not getting anywhere. That was just on that one playthrough, though - I have got past them on other occasions. But the ranged damage increase was the main reason I stopped using RTC and switched to CSBWin, which is a port of the version that I used to play as a kid anyway.

[Wizard Zedd]

Yes I am playing the RTC version. I don't understand....Why is it different using the CSBWin version? And guess I can stop calling them the big yellow eyeball guys now that I know their real name...thanks

[Ameena]

RTC was made from scratch by George Gilbert, bascially coding it from the ground up and so going basically by memory and what "feels right", gameplay-wise. As such, some things are different, such as spell damage being off. You used to be able (in the Atari version) to one-shot Wasps/Munchers with a Lo-level Fireball but you need more than that in RTC. Similarly, as mentioned, Beholder spell damage really hurts in RTC. I think RTC is also based off the Amiga version so as I played the Atari version when I was a kid I don't know if there are other differences that are "supposed" to be there...other than that the mouse cursor changes colour...but you can change this in the config file to the cyan-coloured Atari version . Oh, and monsters have footstep noises which they didn't on the Atari.
CSBWin is just the Atari version's code reconfigured somehow to make it work on a PC (I'm not any kind of programmer whatsoever so I haven't got the faintest clue how this is achieved) by Paul Stevens. As such, it is the Atari version - it's just not running on an Atari, that's all . I used to play with the RTC version (because it was the first one I discovered when I had the thought of "I wish I could play DM again, I wonder if you can get it online somewhere...") but the Beholder insta-kills bugged me too much so I switched over to this one...plus it's a copy of the version I used to play anyway, so better for my nostalgia .
There is another clone called DSB (Dungeon Strikes Back), made by Sophia, which as far as I'm aware is another "made from the ground up" version, but I've never tried it so I don't know how it differs from the others and/or the original.

[Phoenix]

I also don't use RTC for reasons similar to Ameena. For DM, I currently use Steem, the Atari ST emulator. Steem has a neat memory snapshot feature for quick reloads, and it's also very useful for maximizing stats when levelling up. I use CSBWin for everything else.

[Sophia]

Since I wrote DSB, I'll chime in.

DSB is coded from the ground up, but it uses the disassembled CSBwin source code as a reference and attempts to duplicate the mechanics of DM as closely as possible. Things like spell damage and such should (hopefully) feel pretty close to DM as a result.

[Paul Stevens]

Just for the record.....

CSBWin was translated from Atari 'Chaos Strikes Back'.
This is only important if the original Atari 'Dungeon Master'
has differences from the original Atari 'Chaos Strikes Back'.

[Phoenix]

Well....I have one DM floppy and two CSB floppies, but you're right, that's not an important difference.

[Wizard Zedd]

Thanks for the info everyone. Will be interesting to try another version when I am done with this one to see the differences.