High There! ;)

[Radar]

Greets peeps,

New user, old fart Started playing with computers with an Atari ST, got hooked, so expanded the memory to a whole megabyte (piggy-backing them ram chips was sooo much fuuuun!).
Got hooked on DM as soon as I saw it, but only dabbled with CSB, as I wanted to build my DM characters up a bit more, (by which time I fell for Ultima Underworld).
I dabble a bit with Linux, (installed Gentoo on an old Thecus Yes! Box NAS) and currently have a QNAP NAS where I replaced their version of Linux with Debian Stretch. I also run a Winbloat 10 machine, and dabble with batch files occasionally.
Seeing some of the work that goes on on this site, and loving it

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Ameena]

Heya, welcome to the forum . Sadly it's pretty quiet in here these days but some of us are still around. I also used to play on an Atari ST, with loads of games including, of course, DM and CSB. It made up a decent-sized chunk of my childhood and now I have an emulator that lets me play any of those games whenever I want .

[Radar]

Hey Ameena,

I noticed it was pretty quiet This is still the best forum for DM/CSB around, though
I've played with a couple of Atari emulators, and messed around with DOSBox, but it all took a back seat to trading forex for the past few years
Now, I'm stumbling my way through Conflux, and trying to learn how to mod Grimrock, (mainly trying to work out how to improve the interface so that the mouse is only needed for interacting with the scenery).
Well, I'm off to be the wizard (or maybe the ninja).

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Ameena]

I never actually finished Legend of Grimrock...I think I got down to around Level Seven and then sort of started playing other stuff and never went back to it. Never really even looked at the sequel, either. Maybe one day I'll get around to it . I still play plenty of games that I used to play back in the '90s (even the late '80s, like DM)...so many of them I just find to be better than stuff that gets made nowadays, at least when it come to big-name things...there are plenty of recent Indy games that I do play, though. I just tend to find lowr-budget stuff seems to have a lot more thought put into it than stuff where the focus is all on the graphics and very little else.

[Radar]

Hey Ameena,
When 3D graphics first came out, quality gaming went out the window There is the odd game or two that are worth a bit of time, but after a while, the grind gets to much, and I end up putting them away.
Then there's the great concept of crafting games... One I loved especially had you punch trees to get fibres to make string, so that you could eventually make a stone axe (rolls eyes)... The first ranged weapon you could make was a crossbow... After a while, you could even make a standard bow... (Note to designers, there was a few centuries between the invention of the bow, and the eventual invention of the crossbow.).
I just can't seem to get into games that much any more, but when I get in the mood, I tend to reach for DM. The handy thing now is that I keep my game on my NAS, so when I have to do fresh installs of winbloat, I don't lose my saves
I've been playing a modded dungeon for Grimrock, (Dungeon Master mod, of course), but I miss all the keyboard options of DM, so am trying to learn LUA scripting so that I can make my own.
Time for me to head off... It's after midnight already. Damn, time's fun when you're having flies! (If you don't believe me, just ask Kermit).

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Ameena]

Hmm, punching trees in order to get the materials to make a pickaxe and stuff...I'm guessing you are familiar with Minecraft? Okay, it's by no means the only game like that these days, but it's probably the most well-known. And there's a bunch of other games like Ark: Survival Evolved, where the survival aspect is more prominent and you're still knocking trees down to craft your tools but there are also problems such as starvation, temperature...oh yeah, and dinosaurs . I like being able to build up from nothing to super-uber-with-loads-of-cool-stuff-and-a-cool-base-to-keep-it-all-in in those kinds of games .

[Radar]

Hey Ameena,
I definitely like the concept of being totally self-sufficient, and building up from scratch, but I've yet to see a game where the execution has been worth the effort.
I haven't looked at Minecraft, though I guess I should, since my niece's kids are into it As for ARK, that was the tree-punching game I've heard they've made a few changes since when I first played it, but by then, they'd already lost me due to excessive ridiculosity
One series I forgot to mention was Thief Whilst everyone else was running around shooting everything up, I was hiding in the shadows, sneaking around, and stealing everything that wasn't nailed down I've had sessions in those games that went for 72 hours straight -"I'll just do this little bit, then hit the sack" - followed by 24 hours of solid snoring
I just read the Top Ten RPG's thread, and someone mentioned HoMMVI, so I've started playing that again
So many games, only one life!

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Chaos-Shaman]

Hello Radar.


Nice to have some old timers around. Welcome. Played most of those games and feel much the same as you do. Some of us are still around. You are correct to say that since 3d games came out, they lost a lot of the beauty of what the first Dungeon crawler games were like. What really broke that genre was multiplayer, I think it destroyed that long lost beauty, fun was replaced.

[Ameena]

Huh, I wrote a reply here yesterday but it's not here...that's weird. Did I somehow manage not to hit the "send" button or something? Hmm. Well, I'll write out what I can remember...

So...Minecraft - yes, it's good if you are even remotely creative. You get to build up from the tree-punching stage all the way up to...well, there are a vast number of mods and modpacks available now, so the upper limit of your available resources and abilities and stuff is actually ridiculously high depending on what you're playing with. But even in the unmodded game there's still plenty to do .

Ark is fun, yeah, played it a few months ago. It's like Minecraft but with less terrain manipulation and more dinosaurs .

The Thief series - yes, I am familiar with it. In most RPGs and such, I am fond of employing what I term "Sneaky Bastard Tactics", which tend to entail sneaking around, relieving people of their stuff (gold, weapons, jewellry...lives...) without them noticing, backstabbing, sniping, all that kind of stuff. And the Thief series is basically Sneaky Bastard Tactics: The Game so yeah, I've been there . Never finished the second game though, actually - got stuck. But I think I was pretty far through. I've played the third one (Deadly Shadows) the most, and I think it was the first one of the three that I played before later getting hold of the first two as a two-pack. But yeah, good fun .

You mention HoMM VI...wow, is it really up to six games now? I've playe the third one a lot, never played the first two. Seen the fourth being played by someone else and didn't really like it. I know a fifth came out but didn't know a sixth had since been released. But yeah, Heroes III is my favourite (Necropolis my favourite Town type) . And then there's the Might and Magic RPG series, of which I've played VI-VIII and the former of those three is my favourite . Big, open world, plenty to do, lots of quests...and umm...several exploits you can use to become ridiculously OP and do stuff you're not meant to be able to do >:).

The Elder Scrolls series is another one I like - Morrowind is my favourite...can definitely remember playing that the first time and as it wore on past midnight, 1am, 2am, it was like, "Oh okay, I'll just hand in this quest...oh but I might as well pick up the next quest while I'm here...oh, but this quest only needs me to go to that dungeon that's not very far away, so I'll just go there and get the item I need...oh but now I have the item I might as well bring it back and hand the quest in..." repeated until I'd finished all that NPC's quests and finally dragged myself away from the computer to go to bed .

[Radar]

Hey Chaos-Shaman,

Hello Radar.


Nice to have some old timers around. Welcome. Played most of those games and feel much the same as you do. Some of us are still around. You are correct to say that since 3d games came out, they lost a lot of the beauty of what the first Dungeon crawler games were like. What really broke that genre was multiplayer, I think it destroyed that long lost beauty, fun was replaced.

I just don't get the appeal of multiplayer games, even worse are MMO games... MMO's seem to bring the worst out of too many people, (then again, the Fuel-Rats in Elite:Dangerous do show the better side of human nature). I guess that if you have a good group of people to play alongside of, and that are into the role-playing, then multiplayer would be ok, but I've yet to find such a group.

Sorry about the delay in replying... I can go for days trying to get on here, but have problems connecting to the server.

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Radar]

Huh, I wrote a reply here yesterday but it's not here...that's weird. Did I somehow manage not to hit the "send" button or something? Hmm. Well, I'll write out what I can remember...

I've made it a habit to copy my replies and paste them into notepad++ before hitting the send button... Had a few sites log me off whilst I was writing... I have problems conecting to this server, too... I've been trying to reply to you for a week... Hitting the reload button every couple of minutes for an hour tonight.

So...Minecraft - yes, it's good if you are even remotely creative. You get to build up from the tree-punching stage all the way up to...well, there are a vast number of mods and modpacks available now, so the upper limit of your available resources and abilities and stuff is actually ridiculously high depending on what you're playing with. But even in the unmodded game there's still plenty to do .

Ark is fun, yeah, played it a few months ago. It's like Minecraft but with less terrain manipulation and more dinosaurs .

Yeah, my creativity is pretty remote... (It's so remote, I can't find it)

The Thief series - yes, I am familiar with it. In most RPGs and such, I am fond of employing what I term "Sneaky Bastard Tactics", which tend to entail sneaking around, relieving people of their stuff (gold, weapons, jewellry...lives...) without them noticing, backstabbing, sniping, all that kind of stuff. And the Thief series is basically Sneaky Bastard Tactics: The Game so yeah, I've been there . Never finished the second game though, actually - got stuck. But I think I was pretty far through. I've played the third one (Deadly Shadows) the most, and I think it was the first one of the three that I played before later getting hold of the first two as a two-pack. But yeah, good fun .

Yeah, I started with DS, too, then got the previous ones. I do like the latest one... Too bad my video cards' fans couldn't sustain the power needed keep them cool enough, and pulled themselves apart. (What genius decided to mount the fans in such a way that they pull themselves out of their casing, rather than push back into it?).

You mention HoMM VI...wow, is it really up to six games now? I've playe the third one a lot, never played the first two. Seen the fourth being played by someone else and didn't really like it. I know a fifth came out but didn't know a sixth had since been released. But yeah, Heroes III is my favourite (Necropolis my favourite Town type) . And then there's the Might and Magic RPG series, of which I've played VI-VIII and the former of those three is my favourite . Big, open world, plenty to do, lots of quests...and umm...several exploits you can use to become ridiculously OP and do stuff you're not meant to be able to do >:).

I mis-mentioned I'm actually playing M&M VI: Heroes, (I mean, really, pimples, is you trying to confuzzle us? 'Cos it worked for me). I'm doing the Necro campaign now, and mission 3 is being a real pain... It took four restarts, then redoing mission 2 to select different abilities before I could get to the point where I'm not getting chewed up and spat out

The Elder Scrolls series is another one I like - Morrowind is my favourite...can definitely remember playing that the first time and as it wore on past midnight, 1am, 2am, it was like, "Oh okay, I'll just hand in this quest...oh but I might as well pick up the next quest while I'm here...oh, but this quest only needs me to go to that dungeon that's not very far away, so I'll just go there and get the item I need...oh but now I have the item I might as well bring it back and hand the quest in..." repeated until I'd finished all that NPC's quests and finally dragged myself away from the computer to go to bed .

I think I've played a TES game, but not too sure... I played Baldy's Gate for a while, but got lost, (both in the lands and in the quests).
I get the same way in games, though... "Oh, just this little bit more..." 48 hours later, and I stagger off to bed
I was worse when I was writing batch files... Found some great utility batch files that showed how to expand on the basic capabilities whilst still only using the standard commands that came with DOS 6.22... Spent 72 hours straight writing a calculator in a batch file, just to see if it could be done... It couldn't do fractions or decimals, so when doing division it would give whole number & remainder as a result (e.g. 17 / 5 would result in 3, remainder 2).

Time for me to go saw wood (snore)

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Chaos-Shaman]

You mention HoMM VI...wow, is it really up to six games now? I've playe the third one a lot, never played the first two. Seen the fourth being played by someone else and didn't really like it. I know a fifth came out but didn't know a sixth had since been released. But yeah, Heroes III is my favourite (Necropolis my favourite Town type) . And then there's the Might and Magic RPG series, of which I've played VI-VIII and the former of those three is my favourite . Big, open world, plenty to do, lots of quests...and umm...several exploits you can use to become ridiculously OP and do stuff you're not meant to be able to do >:).

I think they are at HMM10 now, they all suck past 6, got too fancy with trying to keep up with the Jones and forgot about tactical gameplay. I loved HMM3 and oddly, HMM4 was my favorite because the hero was in battle too, and I literally could use magic and 4 heroes with NO CREATURES to do battles, not all battles could be won that way but putting 4 heroes with all their special attributes and spells was extremely powerful. I played on the IMPOSSIBLE LEVEL ALWAYS with both HMM3 and HMM4. HMM4 is my all time favorite tactical game, Heroes to me was a lot like playing chess.

I mis-mentioned I'm actually playing M&M VI: Heroes, (I mean, really, pimples, is you trying to confuzzle us? 'Cos it worked for me). I'm doing the Necro campaign now, and mission 3 is being a real pain... It took four restarts, then redoing mission 2 to select different abilities before I could get to the point where I'm not getting chewed up and spat out

Heroes 5 and 6 were to me moving in the wrong direction. Stopped playing them after that, just didn't appeal to me. Sure the graphics were great but the gameplay was lost. graphics are not as important as tactical gameplay.

[Radar]

About a year or so ago, I played Endless Dungeon... Graphics style was based on late '80's games, but the game-play was definitely addictive. Every level after the tutorial level changed with each re-start, so there was no, "I'll remember that next time I play this level"

Give me a good storyline with player and npc options that are consistent with that story's world history.
Design the interface so that it's easy to remember, modify, and use. (I tried playing a first-person shooter that used every damn key on the keyboard, including shifted, alted, and ctrl-ed key combo's, as well as the rat... Needless to say, I only bothered trying once).
Use the absolute fugliest graphics to play-test it with, and if you can't stop playing the damn thing, then you can replace the fuglies with the most jaw-dropping graphics ever created.
Do these things, and you have a timeless classic

Too bad that nowadays, it's mostly, "What excuse can I give for drawing these pretty pictures?"

Hmmm... I was about to go saw wood an hour or so ago

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

[Ameena]

Yeah, a lot of games (mainly ones by the big companies) seem to put too much effort on the graphics to the detriment of everything else. Also, a lot of games have too much hand-holding these days. Just drop me in the world with some crappy starting gear after I'm done creating my character - I'll do the rest, thanks . I've been replaying Dragon's Dogma recently which is pretty good for that, actually - it doesn't go overboard to tell you how every little thing works, it's very easy to miss quests if you don't go back to certain areas at certain points in the main quest line, and there are tough mobs scattered across the land that you may not expect to suddenly show up when you're busy fighting some crappy goblins or whatever .

Not sure I agree on multiplayer being a "bad thing" as seems to be implied here. It depends who you play with - yes, a lot of people online are idiots and I don't play games that use public servers or anything. But playing stuff with friends is fine. Also, I have played one MMORPG and that was Everquest, back in the day (started in 2001 and played for over four years). The community there was great - people would always help each other out, just because they could (eg running around newbie zones giving buffs to all the low level people strugging against the mobs there), and if there was anyone who acted unpleasant, word would get around soon enough and no-one would want to group with them.

But outside of that, other games I play online I do so in private sessions that only certain friends or whomever can join. I don't have too many people to play stuff online with these days but I do also use Tabletop Sim to be able to play a couple of my favourite tabletop games with a friend considering he lives too far away for us to easily meet up face-to-face and play that way . We've played a bunch of other stuff previously together - various ARPGs, Minecraft, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, a couple of the Borderlands games and some other stuff, but he's not online so often now so we just settle for some tabletop gaming instead .

[Chaos-Shaman]

it's very easy to miss quests if you don't go back to certain areas at certain points in the main quest line

I agree with this. The way around it is to show what has not been completed, this helps the player and gives them incentive to search for the incomplete part. This is one feature I will use in the future, I find it very important.

Multiplayer has a lot of problems, first and foremost, people are sore losers, then there is the money involved which is another bad aspect, then there is the time, 4 years is a long time. I think my son played a lot of games and spent nearly all his time having to be at home to complete a mission. not something that is all that great for busy people, they end up not going out to places and staying home instead. I know this because my children did just that. And don't forget the cheating too, it's just not worth it.
Some multiplayer games like 1 on 1 are okay. For a little while, before the average person owned a computer and before the internet, I played Doom, and I was one of the top players in Toronto, those were the fun days but once the internet became the norm and people started owning computers the games coming out went downhill, I left the scene. I look forward to the return to beating the programmers designs. Hardest game that I ever played was a console game, KID CHAMELION, freaking hard!

[Chaos-Shaman]

About a year or so ago, I played Endless Dungeon... Graphics style was based on late '80's games, but the game-play was definitely addictive. Every level after the tutorial level changed with each re-start, so there was no, "I'll remember that next time I play this level"

Give me a good storyline with player and npc options that are consistent with that story's world history.
Design the interface so that it's easy to remember, modify, and use. (I tried playing a first-person shooter that used every damn key on the keyboard, including shifted, alted, and ctrl-ed key combo's, as well as the rat... Needless to say, I only bothered trying once).
Use the absolute fugliest graphics to play-test it with, and if you can't stop playing the damn thing, then you can replace the fuglies with the most jaw-dropping graphics ever created.
Do these things, and you have a timeless classic

Too bad that nowadays, it's mostly, "What excuse can I give for drawing these pretty pictures?"

Hmmm... I was about to go saw wood an hour or so ago

Have fun!
Radar =8^)

Everything you said here all matters to me, you're dead on.

[Ameena]

If you have an issue with "sore losers" then you're evidently playing PvP games, which I most definitely avoid. Co-op all the way!

[Chaos-Shaman]

If you have an issue with "sore losers" then you're evidently playing PvP games, which I most definitely avoid. Co-op all the way!

yeah, I am fed up with sore losers, it ruins friendships. My dad taught me to let people win when they are a sore loser or you may lose your friend, this also applies to knowledge such as the smarty pants scenario, sometimes it is better to act without speaking, like a good listener. This has held true for 50 years, but it's not honest. Some people are very competative and it comes down to winning and losing and it is very serious to them. I have on a number of occasions stopped playing games with certain people because they got nasty. I'd rather have friends. There are some people that will be quite mad if they find out that the game is being thrown so they win. It's a hard line to walk. That's why I do not like sore losers and play mostly single player games. I also do not like ganging up on people like in multiplayer games, that's not for me. If only it were a perfect world

[Ameena]

As I say - play co-op and such things will not be an issue, because you're ganging up with your friends against an AI, which probably isn't going to start gloating if it beats you, nor care if you do such when you beat it . I play games where you group up with other players against AI enemies so everyone is on the same side...well, mainly it's just one person these days, but Everquest was all about meeting people and grouping up in order to do stuff (though the class I picked turned out to be one of the four best soloing classes, which was nice for when I couldn't find a group), and everyone was great. It probably depends on the community - I don't play in public sessiosn in games which have such things, like Diablo II or GTAV. Because idiots are there and they'll just come over and insta-kill you because they find it fun .

[Chaos-Shaman]

I agree, beating AI is fun. I have not yet joined a group or spent a dollar on becoming a member to play games. I must say that I heard my children speak of how a player was not very good and that they get clobbered due to their inexperience as a team. No matter what, playing with other people still stirs the pot a little, even in fun.

[Ameena]

I mean, it probably depends on what you're playing or who you're playing with...some people will just complain about other people no matter what. But there is an aspect of fun that can be had when playing with other people that you just can't get playing alone. Yes, of course, playing single player stuff is fun and plenty of games couldn't possibly be any other way. But sometimes it's just satisfying to achieve something alongside other people. It doesn't even have to be remotely competitive - joining with a bunch of friends to build something really amazing in Minecraft, for example, is something you can all share in enjoying .

[Chaos-Shaman]

All true. People do play to win and not to lose, it's a matter of how good of a loser they are. People certainly don't play to lose unless they want their attention

[Ameena]

I mean...not always? Not all games necessarily are ones that can be "won" or "lost" - tabletop RPGs, for example. You don't really "win" DnD, you just play it and have fun and maybe your character achieves some of whatever they set out to achieve (even if that's something as basic/obvious as "survive"). And like my Minecraft example - if you're just playing together in Creative Mode to build a cool thing, there is no winning or losing. Those only come about in a competitive situation, and there isn't really any competition in doing something like that. Even joining up with a group in Everquest or something, you're just fighting monsters...I suppose you "lose" if something messes up and you get too many mobs you and you all get killed or something, but then you just get your corpses back and carry on/go somewhere else. Not every game has to involve beating stuff.

[Chaos-Shaman]

yeah, I see it now. You like the hive, sorta borg where everyone works together for the common goal, to take over everyone. Sorry my mind uncontrollably drifts creatively off sometimes but I can see it. I fear I might get absorbed into this Mode

I think I might have to find a descent game to play, it's been a long time since buying one. RTC keeps me busy, thinking, playing with graphics programs, I get a rush from that, just as though I were playing a game.

[Ameena]

"Take over everyone"? No. No PvP. As I have said - I don't play to "beat" other players. I do not team up with other people to "beat" other players. I may team up with one person to have fun building stuff or to defeat enemies controlled by an AI. Not every game is about kicking the crap out of other people or otherwise messing with their day and ruining their fun, and I stay well away from any game that involves that...or at least, any aspect of any game which may involve that (eg public games in, say, Diablo II, which are rife with such unpleasant people). Nice people do exist online and it is possible to do nice things with them. Get used to it .

[Chaos-Shaman]

I still say you are absorbing the play

[Ameena]

Umm, what does that mean?

[ParuNexus]

On the subject of MMO, I've also had a kinda long history of playing those along with some of the others games mentioned thus far. I feel the lesser known ones or private servers tend to have a more friendly players. My longest playing mmo(well more ORPG) is Euotopia Started out like so many other projects a fan game based on Ultima 5 and has gone though so many changes, they drooped the ultima part but still exists today. There is PVP but I tend to avoid that. Most of those pvp players tend to be OK not really hating others or doing pranks. About 2 months ago they added a TCG mini game called Balrog I think a couple weeks ago they had an update for single player if you want to avoid PVP with someone else. Just about everyone helps out new people. You tend to have more people talking on discord then people playing at once its been running since 2003. if you enjoyed some of the mroe classic ultima games you should give it a try: euotopia.com I think still accepting cards if you think you have a cool card(esp artwork).

Radar: I kinda know your pain about notepad, while i have a good connection some of the other places I've been active with had a timed response so I would need to do notepad++ first.

I never could get into minecraft, I love seeing what people make but playing those, not really. TES I also enjoy alot, never done TES online. but I'm also a fan of other other big property Fallout. Some of those people on forums etc can be pretty mean spirited thou. I have a kind of love\hate with 76, because that will open the door to all those assholes. still Hopefully they have something in play to deal with it.

Plenty of other games that are more atmospheric and story then really winning, been meaning to get night in the woods, I've seen some video but really should play as its lots of different branching arcs. At least this thread hasn't gotten too heated Glad to have a civil discussion, it seems harder online of late(years).

[Chaos-Shaman]

Umm, what does that mean?

It means you are still playing the games.

My son came by the house yesterday and told me he is not going to buy a new computer or play games anymore, I found the timing ironic, he has better things to do like get involved with his 4 daughters. He sees the light. I told him to go back to making music, read books to his children. Unfortunately he is suffering with the loss of his brother who he did play games with, I am worried about him. His sister is also changing too, once they hit the thirties life really changes. She's house hunting now and ready to have more children so she won't have the time because I won't be there to do her dishes, cook her food and clean up after her, she will have to change to fit the situation. I never played many computer games with my children, and for good reason.

[Chaos-Shaman]

ParuNexus, no worries, I think the forum has moved beyond the squabbling and has matured quite a lot, I have great respect for this place, loads of intelligent people, good people and lots of opinions from all corners. It's my favorite place to visit.