Viewing strength of items

[amaprotu]

First I never liked DM2 very much, the atmosphere just wasn't right or something.
However there were some features that I think should be implemented in CSB if possible.

One is that when examining a potion there was a bar that showed below the weight of the item that displayed its power (with the symbols << and {uh i can't make a triangle} on the ends). This would be nice feature to be able to use when people make their own games perhaps.

Another is a map item, while not appropriate for DM might be a nice option for user made levels.

And the only other one I can think of right now is the extra spells (but I can't remember what they are!).

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[Gambit37]

DM and CSB already show you the power of a potion by holding it up to a champion's eye icon - though it's only represented by the relevant symbol on a scale of 1 to 6. DM2 changed this to a scale bar and allowed other items to have a power rating.

The map in CSB was cool, but a little pointless other than searching for invisible pits and stuff because the range was so limited (7 squares). Would be nice to implement in RTC though!

[George Gilbert]

I'm not convinced by this actually. Personally I believe it's better for there to be an air of mystery (as there would be in reality) about how powerful (or not) a given object is. Granted for potions it's useful (and one could argue that they would be bubbling away giving you a rough idea of how powerful they were) but to give a precise (or any) rating to how useful a given piece of clothing, or a particular sword is would spoil it a bit. Surely part of the fun is trying to find out just how much better (or worse) the Diamond edge was compared to the Inquisitor. To have it displayed to you in black and white defeats some of the adventure/discovery/learning part of a game.

Just my opinion, but I do feel quite strongly about it.

[Lubor Kolar]

It is difficult to say what`s better. I agree with George that knowing exact characterictics (like magic power fo magic weapons etc.) defeats some mysterious atmosphere of the game.
But there are some "BUTs"
I think when I found "Diamond Edge" sword - I said to myself "This sword was very good protected, it must be powerful" - but I tried it in some battles and it didn`t performed better than Axe so I left it in the dungeon. Maybe this sword had some special properties (like double attack against ....), but I do not have any possibility to know it (actually, I have, just to try it again and again against different monsters and in different situations). But I get bored to try it when I know Axe has overall performation better.
Maybe it will be good to do it similar way like in Angband: every could have several properties and as experienced character is, so much properties are revealed in describtion. It was in Eye Of The Beholder too - if you had experienced cleric, when he took the magic item it wrote "+2 long sword" or "-3 Cursed Blade" but taking the same item with inexperienced character produced generic messages like "long sword" or "blade" etc. I found it very interesting since it was mysterious but motivating because you knew if your characters are doing well they will recognize more species...
I hope you can understand me...

My idea is that every item could have some additional descriptions. For example:
Item name: Sword
Characteristic1: Apprentice figher or better
Characteristic2: Average attack power
Characteristic3: Enhanced recovery speed
Characteristic4: Extra fire damage agains animals
When novice fighter examines this sword on eye icon, no extra characteristic should be shown. But when he gain some experience, it should show Characteristics1, when gained more figher experience, it should show Characteristics2 etc.
It would need some configuration because RTC should know when it should show descriptions:

Char1: FIGHTER_1000_XP
Char2: FIGHTER_1800_XP
Char3: FIGHTER_1000_XP NINJA_2000_XP
Char4: FIGHTER_2500_XP WIZARD_4000_XP

In addition, there could be some examination spell, which should reveal some characteristics (for example the most powerful "Reveal" spell should show characteristics where no more than 8000 XP is required because on higher levels it would be easy to cast this spell at full power).

What do you say on that???

[Gambit37]

I think it's useful for shwoing the power of potions, but I think you're right about it destroying the element of mystery. I never really thought about that before. Perhaps it's another of those things that ultimately 'killed' DM2. They should have stuck to the old adage of "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it."

On another note regarding DM2 features, there's these annoying minion things that get all over the place and make your life hell. Please reassure me that you WON'T be implementing these in RTC...?

[beowuuf]

I agree totally with not revealing to many powers of weapons, but maybe pointers....
The thing i was thinking was an extention of EOTB - when certain areas, if you had the right character, would generate a comment. How about using a certain weapoon for the first time? You lob a fireball with Fury, and your wizard says 'that was quite powerful', or a high level ninja approaching Diamond Edge says 'i like the balance of that'..you know, stupid phrases that tell you the rough area that it could be good in (plus it's nice to have characters interacting...i would like that to be an option in a less serious way tooin certain areas, like magic users saying 'i don't like this'..and being told to shut up by fighters, etc....)

[amaprotu]

wow sparked some debate there!
I really just meant on potions only and only in the showing of the power rune used to create it. If this can be gotten from the orginal DM (the PC version is the only one I have now) then I missed it. It was actually less precice i think in DM2 then telling you what rune you used I believe, the bar that told you how powerful the potion was was based entirely on the power rune used, so maybe its just as accurate but harder to read, cuz theonly ones you can read really easily are max power ones and minimum power ones. I think I'm doing a horrible job of explaining how I think it works. Ah well, maybe someone more articulate can have a go at it.

Again if the power rune used for a spell can already be gotten in DM thats cool =).

[cowsmanaut]

Why not create an ID spell. it will identify a specific object power and enchantment.

IE a anti poison potion would show
mon vi bro

this would only ID the one in hand though. then when removed it would be up to you to remember what it was..

[amaprotu]

If george is adding new spell effects this would be a nice one, especially if objects were allowed to have an ID= string associated with them... has possibilities. Some items could be cursed (give negative stat adjustments) but look just like normal items until IDed, or something.