Spellcasting

[beowuuf]

Since the rune casting seems to be really cool (have to wait until the DM.rtc file gets the key bug removed to properly play with it), then I thought why not suggest more things!

Since the original idea was to have spell scrolls needed to cast spells, I wandered if this was a concideration for later? For example, all spells found through experimentation appear in a second page onwards of the spellsbook and are then castable, but some that are designated 'not common sense' by the dungeon builder are ghosted out when found like the runes, and the spell scroll is actually required to be used in the book to activate the spell. Also, could scrolls add the description of the spell into the book?

Just a thought, the system seems to be good as is.

[theadder]

I think the only thing that needs to be added to the spellbook to make it perfect is the actual spells being inscribed.
There should be a back/forward button on the book while it is in somebodies hand. The front page shows the runes known as it does now, and then subsequent pages simply show the information that was on the scroll when somebody learned a spell. Just so new players don't have to write them all down on a piece of paper. Then the spellbook would be exactly like it is in most other RPG games of the sort.

[Gambit37]

Yes, it's difficult to pass a valued judgment on this until the key bug is removed as I've only got the runes for one spell which hardly makes it playable at the moment. Can't wait for 0.07.1 !!

I agree about the spell book - it looks just right to fit in to the style of DM graphics, and it works as I would have expected. It feels like a part of the original game. I personally don't like the idea that you can't cast spells if you're not carrying the book though. That implies that your wizards don't remember anything they've learnt and that just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'll wait and see once I've been able to play the full game...

[George Gilbert]

To get beyond the spell book needing to be carried it would have to be part of the inventory (like the sleep icon is say). That would make the dropping of the scrolls into the book a little contrived (I think0, but any better suggestions are more than welcome.

[MadMunky]

The spell book system is slowly turning to the the same spell system used it bloodwych (which i think is grate). So my suggestion is make it the same as bloodwych i.e. Different pages for spells, different colours for the type of spell

Blue = Preist
Red= Attack spells
Yellow = Defence
Green = Posions

Stuff like that!

Just A Idea!

P.S. RTC is grate! good work!

[amaprotu]

I would like to see some listing of the spells discovered if possible, but the spell system asit is is pretty sweet.

I havn't checked but what slots does the book fit in? If it fits in one of th etwo purse slots (bottom left) then it seems like the inventory space it takes up wouldn't be that big of a deal.

One additional comment: If the spell book is somehow incorporated into the character inventory screen, it might be possible for characters to have different spells available to them. This could be a deciding factor when choosing characters of user created dungeons, you 'need' the priest that knows the water rune etc. Of course this would be a little more troublesome when finding scrolls as you might have to scribe it into all four spell books. Another idea is to allow the option for attaching runes to experience levels. ie. "Tiggy has gained a wizard level! He has learned the gor rune" or whatever. Just tossing out ideas.

[MadMunky]

Why not just add a fairy that pop's up and ask's you what rune you want to learn/buy!

p.s. Bloodwych play's will no what I'm taking about!

Also off topic! any plans on any network/split screen multiplayer support?

[amaprotu]

Here is my vision of 'spellbook as interface'
<a href="http://www.ulink.net/amaprotu/spellbook ... ellbook</a>

the spell book would be opened whenever you clicked on the icon next to the hand, whether you were holding something or not, and closed the same way. It would also never be open when first going to the inventory of a character (ie the book closes when you exit the inventory screen).

Hehe I cleaned up the bottom one in case you are wondering why its empty and holding 13 kg of stuff.

If a multiple page book was implimented (where subsequent pages showed spells learned) page fliping could probably be done just by clicking on the page on the sid eyou want to flip. I don't know how this owuld work with inscribing scrolls though, you don't want the pages flipping everytime you try to inscribe a scroll, or do you? Or maybe to inscribe you click the scroll on the book icon not in the book. Just tossing out ideas.

- Amaprotu

[cowsmanaut]

well, I guess having it in the Inv on a permanent basis has it's merit. However that would negate the need to find it.. and it would also take out the idea about removing the book along with other items upon entrance of a new dungeon.

annother possibility would be a memory. As in for a limited amount of time the party would hold the memory o the runes and then it would fade. This way giving them a cusion if they dropped the book somehow.

or perhaps is passed to annother during death. Or it could be placed at the top of the heap when a person dies making it easy to grab and run.

On annother note.. what is this request for having the spells in the book? Do you all really need a hard copy of the spells? If so you can carry around the scrolls still just like in DM.

shrug I like it as it is but subtle changes as these might be nice.. who knows.

[Gambit37]

Having played up to level 8 so far, I have to concede that the current spell book does work rather well. I didn't miss the fact that I couldn't cast fireballs until level 7, and I developed good fighters. My only problem is that my magicians are rubbish, and in no way ready to tackle rats on level nine!

I still have a problem with the fact that the spell book must be kept to cast spells though; as I've said before it implies that characters can't remember anything which just doesn't work for me. In this case, making the spell book part of the interface as I said before would make more sense. But then you could argue the spell book isn't required at all - that characters only have to find the relevant scrolls. You could also argue that characters with no magic experience shouldn't be carrying a spell book, which would question the need for making it an interface element. Lots of fun to be had debating this one...!

As it stands, there's only one spell book. Now, we can assume that the spell book is passed around between characters so that they can all learn the runes. But then if ONE character loses the spell book for example by dropping it down a pit, ALL characters can no longer cast any spells. That just doesn't make any bloody sense whatsoever - are we carrying a team of stupid idiots around who can't remember the last thing they learnt?

Bottom line is that it works well as it stands but perhaps needs a little more thought to make it a more coherent addition.

[beowuuf]

I don't liek the thought of the spellbook becoming an inventory item - that doesn't make sense. A fighter having a spellbook? Unless it's a representation of his memory, in which case why lose the spells in a different dungeon?

I'd be happier if the spellbook stayed a physical object. Staying the only way you can add runes, but these runes then don't disappear in the dunbgeon when the book is dropped. Of course, if the book is stripped from the party in another dungeon, then you'd assume enough time has passed that thgeir inate knowledge wasn't sufficient, and they once again needed the book - their own or a new one to resume gaining the knowledge.

I still vote for keeping as is, surely people can come up with reasons why the book itself is needed for an ethos point of view?. (lol, keeping it as is except for the adding of spells...I'd still like to have the party keep spells in it too and even variations of spells and runes, but that's just me : ) - it seems a nice natural interface to instantly let a ported party know what spells and runes are available again, and also doesn't detreact from gameplay like newer players looking back over scrolls then trying to rememmber what the rune names mean...)

Just my thought....

[beowuuf]

If the spellbook is more a characters memory, and is included as an inventory item (like amaprotu showed) then would people be thinking mroe along the lines of the original suggestion I made about character knowledge and porting, where the contents of the spellbook now represent the memory, but that the worlds they are wandering through are ever changing, so that rather than 'lose' the spellbook it's their knowledge of the influence these runes control in that area of the world that needs to be added to, so spells get faded out rather than lost, and the new scroll has to be used, which would give a different spell defination too.

[Gambit37]

What???

[theadder]

I think we've entered the twilight zone on that one.

[amaprotu]

I think I agree with Beowuuf about the spell book being a representation of the characters memory. In this maner when a character is ported to another dungeon and runes are removed, they are removed because they work differently in this realm and need to be relearnt or they just don't work at all.

The thing with fighters having spell books is a little weird to me. It doesn't seem right that a fighter should, however in DM I always trained my fighters to do magic, four good fireballs from a distance can save a lot of health potions sometimes. If fighters didn't have spell books, I couldn't train them! Also how many characters in DM don't have any mana (and thus can't learn magic without the aid of items or potions)? Hulk and who else?

Any thoughts on the idea of dungeon creators having the ability to attach runes to xp levels?

Amaprotu

[beowuuf]

I think amaprotu managed to condense two posts of nonsense correctly there : )

Since the magic element is a large part of the DM game, but we've all played it so much, then having the largest flexibility to do anything with the system would be good. Attaching xp to runes, found vs known runes, new spells, having or not haviong runes straight off. Anything that would alter the system on a dungeon by dungeon basis so that it always stays nicely fresh and it's still a challenge or exciting.

The spellbook interface as is works nicely, I like it, and so it would be cool to see how far it can be made flexible while still keeping people happy...

[Gambit37]

I didn't think originally that the proposed rune-learning system would work, but it does appear to work pretty well.

One thing I'd like to see is the ability to learn runes from magical objects. In DM2, if you picked up an object, any spells that it could cast were shown in the attack box by it's runes. Also some items would actually display the runes in the text display at the bottom of the screen.

I don't like that though as it gives it away too much. What I'd prefer is that items may have a rune on them, but the player HAS to examine the item by holding it up to the eye to learn the rune. We could then design larger graphics for the item (in full colour) that display in the food/spellbook area and the runes it contains are also displayed. Then you drop the item on the spellbook to learnt the run normally... it would encourage the player to explore and examine objects more thoroughly and would prevent the search for runes just being a search for dull looking scrolls. Any thoughts on that?

[beowuuf]

Must...escape..message...board...

Yes, I like that addition of examining first other objects for runes, though I don't know how easy that would be...the first part george said would be simple enough though, so there's always hope : ).

[Gambit37]

It shouldn't be any more complex than what scrolls currently do - the only difference would be that custom graphics would be displayed instead of the scroll with text on it.

Must....eat...foood.....!

[amaprotu]

I agree that anything that adds to the flexibility in the creation of new dungeons would be great. Ideas I like (in a consolidated list fomat!)
: Runes on items (aside from scrolls)
: Runes on buttons / pressure pads
: Runes on characters (starting/new characters)
: Runes on xp levels (neophyte wizard etc.)

Another idea i like are mind-wipe effects. Pressure pads/buttons and maybe scrolls or items that when inspected give the message (preferably Creator defined but possibly something like "The party becomes forgetful") and removes from the available list a specified (by the dungeon creator) rune.

Using these methods I could create a dungeon where party members chosen would be dependant on what spells they knew as well as their other aspects. Power runes were gained as xp levels were gained. Other runes could be gained by gaining levels as well. I can create one level where fire just does not work (by the pressure pad at the end of the stairs) but does work on all the levels below and above. I can hide runes on rocks and mundane objects, and buttons on the other sides of puzzles could house the reward of a nice rune.

- Amaprotu
/*who is leaving to take a dreaded midterm ug*/

[George Gilbert]

All of this is now possible in V0.35 (and quite a bit in previous versions!)