how to survive without food or water in the worms level

[Antonioperez]

I just started playing Dungeon Master, the snes version, on my steamdeck. It's been many years since I played it on my apple IIgs. I forgot how important it is to have food and water at all times.

How can I keep my characters from dying off so fast while I'm on the search for water / food?

Thanks!

[Ameena]

Well, in the Worm level (Level Four), the worms ARE food, albeit the crappiest food in the game. Hopefully you also have a bunch of Screamer slices from previous levels (and if you can get to the end of this one, the Screamer Room is nearby, where they respawn infinitely). I think there's enough food in those earlier levels (especially with the abundance of Screamers) that you'd have to be hanging around for ages without doing a lot in order to starve to death.
As for water, I just had to double-check my guide but if you need to backtrack to a fountain then you'd need to go back to Level Two, else push on to Level Five, which has several fountains.

[Antonioperez]

I'm damn near out of food and water and I don't think I can defeat any of the screamers. What's my only option? Die and restart the whole damn game?

[Prince of Elves]

The screamers are those mushroom like monsters. If you cannot defeat even them, you're doing something seriously wrong. As for the worms: don't even think of face-tanking those, you'll need to "dance" around them, hitting them from the sides before they have a chance to turn, evade and repeat.

Concerning water, Ameena told you what your (only) options are.

And yeah, the game can be frustrating at times, certainly at the start. It was a different era back them when games (well, there designers) did not yet think players should be coddled. While I do like that approach, I myself rarely have the endurance to really enjoy Atari classics these days.

[Ameena]

Screamers are the weakest monsters in the game, and you'll have already got past a whole bunch of them (and ther stuff, including Mummies and Blue Trolls) to get to Level Four, so you clearly can deal with them . The Purple Worms are tough, but as Prince of Elves says you can manoeuvre around them to try and hit them from the sides (the step dance* works on anything if you have the space). Also chuck spells at them from a distance. They have no ranged attack but can poison you if they bite you (and if I remember rightly it lasts aaaaages) so watch out for that so you don't need to keep retreating to make potions to cure it.
Also, never neglect that most powerful of weapons in the whole dungeon - the doors! If you have a button door (as opposed to one opened with a key, which then can't be shut again afterwards), you can get something to follow you and shut the door on its head - if you stay put while it's getting bonked by the door, you ca maybe get in a couple of swings before it retreats. If you shut a door on something quickly enough, it won't try to attack you but will retreat as quickly as it can, which will still mean getting door-bonked at least a couple of times. Open the door and wait for it to step forward again, then close it again. Repeat until smoke cloud happens .




*The "step dance", as I call it, is a method for defeating stuff in melée without getting hit yourself. All you need is a 2x2 space in which to manoeuvre and for there to be no other monsters nearby but the one you're fighting (it's fine if it's a group of, say, Mummies all on the one square because groups like that don't split up). It's also easier if it's a monster that doesn't look the same on all sides so you can see which way it's facing (Screamers, for example, look the same on all sides, but you shouldn't need to step-dance a Screamer anyway).
What you do is let the monster step up to you but then sidestep before it attacks you, then turn to face the square you just left and get a weapon attack ready. The monster will step forward into the space - twat it with your weapons and then sidestep again as it turns to face you. Repeat until dead. Simple as that - if you don't stay put when they turn toward you, they never get a chance to hit you .

[Antonioperez]

I remember screamers being way easier playing this when I was a kid. I eventually beat a couple of screamers the other day, but it seemed like I had to hit them a TON of frigging times. As well as close the dungeon gates on them also.

Maneuvering around them on the snes version without a keyboard's arrow keys is way harder in my opinion. You're having to hit them a few times, then using the d pad to move the hand to the movement arrows on the screen.

[Ameena]

I've never used a SNES so I don't actually know what the controls are like. Back in the day I played on Atari and used the mouse for everything - later when I searched for and discovered a downloadable version of the game online (used RTC at first, then CSBWin as it's a direct copy of the Atari version), I started using the keyboard to move around. If you're finding your SNES version too difficult you could always grab one of the other versions instead - links are available on the forum here somewhere, and there's always the Encyclopaedia (dmweb.free.fr), the main resource for basically everything .

[Ian Clark]

There's another way to survive with less food: play with just one character. You will also find that this character becomes quite powerful early on in the game because they gain all the experience.

As stated previously, food is easy to come by on the level you are on but it would be a good idea to backtrack to level 2 and fill all your waterskins and flasks with water. You can simply drink the water if you need a flask to make a potion.

[Mayo]

The best part of this game is you can run back to previous levels and stock up on food and water,m while gaining experience.

I will bring chests. Fill my characters to max FULL level of food and water and fill all the chest with screamer/worm round then store then at strtegic places ( for me it was the firestaff level) SO i could always run back and grab a full chest of food if neede, when it took more time to beat a level or figure out a puzzle.

You can also store water in potion flasks when you have those levels without water. I normal would hold one flask of water per character so I would have multiple sources of water if the water skin ran dry.

Running out of food or water will kill your whole group pretty quickly if you dont know where to get more food /water. You really need to be on top of those things this game is unforgiving.

[slickrcbd]

Don't bother filling chests with worm rounds. Fill them with drumsticks, cheese, bread, or corn. You can get unlimited drumsticks on level 9 in a room near the fountain.
You'll want to bring them as food is at a shortage on all levels after level 9. So is water.
Screamer slices are lighter and more nutritious than worm rounds although not as good a drumsticks, corn, cheese, or bread, so eat the worm rounds first to free up weight, then eat the screamer slices, then the apples and horde the other types until those sources are exhausted. You can get unlimited drumsticks later on but cheese, corn, and bread is limited, so keep that in mind when consuming food.
If you have fewer than 4 waterskins by the time you reach the corridor with the automatic door on level four, you need to go back and find the one you missed.
Also it is a good idea once you find that last waterskln on level 4 to go back to level 2 and refill all your skins and flasks at the fountain before progressing. Before refilling drain the waterskins to top off your champions on water.

The worms are difficult, but using the step-dance you should be able to get some food from them to take the edge off. Then go back to level 2 for water.

In your situation if screamers are giving you trouble I would be rushing to the screamer room to kill the screamers with punches and kicks or using daggers to work on ninja levels to build up your party. Use the "shortcut" to get there faster. Only use the closing door trick when you need to retreat, otherwise fight them for experience either bare-handed or with daggers only. This way you build up flagging ninja levels while the worms let you use better weapons for fighter levels. Don't forget your spells. LO OH VEN will make monsters move even if it won't do much damage to anything but wasps. (LO OH VEN will kill all but two wasps on level 6 and a second casting will finish that one group of two wasps. UM OH VEN will have a 50/50 chance against wasps in level 11, but ON OH VEN will kill any wasp group in the game). That said, fight until you run low on health, then retreat, heal up, and go back.
The shield spell YA IR will come in handy too if the screamers are giving you trouble. Use it until you can go toe-to-toe with them. IF the room is densely packed with screamers such that they can't move or you have some in a corner, consider using a stronger poison cloud for the experience. Try to avoid the temptation to just fireball or poison bolt them however since you DO need to toughen up by building ninja levels (and fighter levels, but the worms should take care of that).

In general for food you should try to eat the worm rounds first because they are the least nutritious, then the screamer slices, then apples, and store away things like bread, corn, and cheese because those are the best foods for nutrition/weight. Dragon steaks are the best, and drumsticks are good too, but once you reach level 9 drumsticks will become your staple.

If you are completely out of food, go ahead and fill your chests with screamer slices, but swap them out for decent food on the next two levels while consuming only worm rounds or screamer slices. It should be easy enough to return to the "screamer store" for more slices while you rebuild your stockpile of food.
Once you get done with level 5, go back to the screamer store and fill every slot in your inventory (without throwing anything else out except worm rounds) with screamer slices. That should be enough to get you through the next couple of levels, (you skip level 7 until after level 12) and then on level 9 you can replace those screamers slices with drumsticks.

In general water fountains are only available on three levels 2, 5, and 9. Nine has one near the start and one near the end which you will return to via the "Central Staircase" in later levels. Make sure to top of your water supplies before leaving a level with a fountain.

One final note. Screamers have a surprisingly high amount of health to whittle away at. Especially the ones at the "Screamer Store". However, some of the screamers you encounter early on in the dungeon have far less health so that might be what screwed you up.

[Mayo]

I agree with everything the post above said including to fill your bags with rat drumsticks later if needed .. which is what i did back in the day.. but my recent run thru, i went back and farmed and filled my bags with so much screamer meat (and so many chests full)i never needed the rats at all. I filled every inventory slot available and ate until 100% full and water.

I only mentioned the worms because as a new player that specific level for me anyways, was hard to forget the never ending worms and screamers, was intense my first time playing it. As I believe that is the first level with never ending re-spawning monsters.

My most recent play thru, I finished the game with 6 chests full of screamer slices. I didn't need to farm any rats or dragons or nothing.

In fact i just checked my final save and I still have 2 full chests of screamer slices, sitting at fire-staff level(as i find alot of shortcuts lead to that level quickly) and 4 full chests on my characters when i beat the game. (and still some extra in their inventory)

Any which way there is no wrong way to play but for the weight yes worm round is HEAVY and doesn't provide much % of the food bar for every chunk. Dragon is the best by far but there is only 1 dragon. Screamer is easy to find and kill and good for training anything you want. Plus personally I remembered that screamer level much better than the rat level probably because I spent oodles of time there over the years.

I knew the map by memory.

[Ameena]

I was kind of assuming the poster is a new player so wouldn't know about rats and stuff, and didn't want to spoil stuff that might be on upcoming levels. If they're stuck on Level Four, it's gonna be a while before they get to Level Nine, after all . I think Level Four probably is the first of the actually-tough levels. Level Two is kind of an ongoing tutorial to basic game mechanics (buttons, keys, pits, etc) and the two species of monster there aren't too bad. Level Three being a bunch of nice little self-contained areas means you have plenty of doors to shut on heads, and can also safely sleep in the central room if you need to so while the monsters are potentially quite dangerous, it's usually easy enough to just back out of the nearest door and close it behind you. Level Four doesn't have that luxury and the Worms are pretty tough so you need to really start being careful.
As for food, I always just leave Worm rounds as they are so rubbish (heavy and the least-filling of all food in the game). I take all the other food and also Screamer slices if I have space. I eat cheese first 'cause it's heaviest, then start working through the Screamer slices. Usually I'm still doing that when I finish the game, but I have played it a bunch of times by now so I know which areas can be skipped/ignored and where I want to go to get specific items I like. I also only play with two characters, which probably makes things a bit easier as I need (and can carry) less stuff. But for a first time I would recommend taking the full four-person party so you have the most possible inventory space and can unleash a four-spell barrage of prepared Fireballs (or whatever) at any oncoming dudes who deserve it >:).

[slickrcbd]

I agree with everything the post above said including to fill your bags with rat drumsticks later if needed .. which is what i did back in the day.. but my recent run thru, i went back and farmed and filled my bags with so much screamer meat (and so many chests full)i never needed the rats at all. I filled every inventory slot available and ate until 100% full and water.

I only mentioned the worms because as a new player that specific level for me anyways, was hard to forget the never ending worms and screamers, was intense my first time playing it. As I believe that is the first level with never ending re-spawning monsters.

My most recent play thru, I finished the game with 6 chests full of screamer slices. I didn't need to farm any rats or dragons or nothing.

In fact i just checked my final save and I still have 2 full chests of screamer slices, sitting at fire-staff level(as i find alot of shortcuts lead to that level quickly) and 4 full chests on my characters when i beat the game. (and still some extra in their inventory)

I make a point to swap screamer slices out of chests for other food items especially cheese, bread, and corn whenever I come across it. I also stow things I know I won't need for a while like RA keys in chests and try to keep the worm rounds and screamer slices out the chests. So I don't think I've finished the game with chests full of screamer slices. Drumsticks yes, but not slices. I've also found that I rarely need to go back for food unless I need water too. I stock up on both at the same time (except for the beginning when leaving level 3, I first go back to level 2 and refill my waterskins before proceeding to level 4. It's not like there is any more food to be had).
Half the time I finish the game without ever eating any of those three foodstuffs because I'm existing on worm rounds, screamer slices, and drumsticks with the rare apple. I left out dragon steaks because you don't get those until near the end, but I fill a chest with dragon steaks.

That said, as indicated earlier, before leaving level 5 I'll go back upstairs and refill on food. Although honestly what I tend to do is fill up on worm rounds on level 4 and eat them during the course of level 5, throwing the ones I get at the end down the stairs to eat as needed, then go back up and fill up on screamer slices right before heading down to the Riddle Room. Often that is my only time returning to the screamer room, although I will clear it out on my first pass, then clear it out again on my return, so I can fill up my inventory on slices.

For the rat room, I clear it upon my first visit and fill up on as many drumsticks as I can carry, then usually don't need to return until after clearing level 12. However it depends on the party, some need more food & drink than others. It's usually water rather than food that I'm running low on by that point however. Usually. I've found that the "fighter' type champions like Halk, Stamn, Sonja, Leela, Hissssa, Daroou, etc tend to run out of water before food, while the "fragile spellcaster" type of champions like Tiggy, Gando, Chani, Boris, Wu Tse, etc seem to need to eat more frequently. It's possibly related to how they also tend to deplete their stamina more quickly.
I'm a pack-rat so I tend to favor the stronger champions to carry more stuff that I never seem to use like wands, staves, bombs, magic boxes, etc.
Well, I do use the FUL bombs and the most powerful VEN bombs against the dragon. By that point there isn't anything else saving them for. I do use magic boxes to help solving puzzles, especially the one just past the Riddle Room on level 6, but then I tend to horde the rest until the dragon. Then I use a couple against him.
On the other hand, my strategy for killing the dragon is almost unfair.

[Antonioperez]

I was kind of assuming the poster is a new player

Nah, I'm not a new player. I had Dungeon Master on an Apple IIgs back in the day.

I'm playing it now on a steamdeck with an SNES emulator. It's way harder because I don't have a keyboard or a mouse. Trying to use the joystick to move the hand around to attack a monster, and then moving it to the arrows to move around a monster is a huge pain in the a#$.

I'm going to try to install an apple iigs or atari st emulator on my steamdeck to get this working.

Ideally I'd love to have a mouse and a num lock keyboard thing like this to move around and attack.

[Ameena]

You're playing DM with a joystick? Ouch, no wonder you're having difficulty .
At least you know there are alternate versions out there if you want to play it with, you know, decent controls .

[Antonioperez]

@ameena, yeah the SNES version is way harder without having mouse controls. I'm going to try installing an Amiga emulator and using my mouse / keyboard combo. The only problem is I misplaced the USB dongle yesterday haha.

[jayrshaw]

I can see how playing Dungeon Master with a joystick would likely be difficult, but I can confirm that playing with a standard SNES controller works fine [in fact, it's the only way I've ever played the game].


--Jay

[slickrcbd]

I can't imagine playing it without the keyboard shortcuts.