Understanding weapon damage

[Quartermass]

When I've been looking at actions vs damage vs fatigue I've noticed that there are 3 different damage figures given.

1 - On actions and combos which seems to be the same as 2
2- In actions(damage) on the items page
3 - Under damage on the items page

So 1 and 2 seem to be the same and relate to damage for an action. 3 seems to be specific to that item. How do these 2 damage numbers interact?

Will a chop with the axe do more damage than the hardcleave? Both are listed as 48 damage and the items at 49 and 70. So will the axe to 49/70 of the damage the hardcleave does for the same actions?

[jayrshaw]

The damage calculations in Dungeon Master are actually pretty complex. Automaton delved into them a bit in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?t=31345


--Jay

[Quartermass]

Oof! Well that's a lot of data.

What I tried to do, and failed to do, was see if the damage stat (hardcleave being 70, axe being 49 for example) came into it and I think he mentions it once as weapon_damage and then again as weapon_base_damage and I can see an example using the falchion base damage of 30.

But there's so many other factors in it.

What it also shows is that strength is important for the heavier weapons, and important in general. I had thought only dexterity mattered. Sadly he posted images in section 2 of his analysis which are now gone. I suspect they might have the data I'm after, the best weapon/attack.

[Quartermass]

After all that reading - and not fully understanding - I think I'm coming to some conclusions.

I want a very high str character, with str potions and I'm thinking of a certain lizard! He should have the hardcleave.

And for my other front row it's unclear if I should consider the mace of order - that weapon has always felt like a bit of an enigma to me. Maybe a character specialising in the club skill. That assumes stun does something to enemies?

Or maybe just the 2nd best weapon, which I think is diamond edge or inquisitor.

And it seems better to use shield spells and light/stat boosting armour than the heavy stuff.

[slickrcbd]

For the armor, the lizard in question is probably strong enough to use the heavy stuff, but for all but the the strongest (in terms of raw strength) champions you want to use the medium or light armor. Halk, Stamn, Daroou, Hissssa, and Sonja are the ones you probably want to wear heavy armor. The rest you probably want to wear medium or even light armor for weaklings like Wuuf, Boris, or Tiggy. Even in a party with Hissssa, Halk, Sonja and Stamn you probably want to give one of them the mirthril armor and use the weight saved to store extra chests.
The Mithril armor is arguably the best armor in the game for all but the strongest champions.

[aster]

I agree that the Mithral aketon and mail are some of the most sought after items every time I play the game, especially as it's found early in the dungeon (L5) as opposed to where the Lyte/Darc (L9-11).

But one thing that really distinguishes the Mithral pieces from the Lyte/Dark ones is the "Sharp resistance stat. For the former it's a mighty 7, but the latter only have 4.

Just how much of a difference does this make in battle? Does it mean that against creatures using sharp attacks the overall protection of the Mithral could be equal or better than the high Armour-strength Lyte/Dark sets?

[slickrcbd]

I'm pretty sure that is the case, but I had a very hard time quantifying just how effective armor was as a kid.

[aster]

It would be useful if someone who has run the numbers before could compare Mithral with Lyte/Darc when it comes to sharp attacks and how they compare. Could Mithral actually... come out better?

[jayrshaw]

The main thing I recall from Automaton's analysis of this is that having both a Shield Spell and Shield Potion up is at least as important a factor in reducing damage as the actual armor a character is wearing.


--Jay

[slickrcbd]

I'm assuming you mean YA BRO and YA IR? I didn't realize they stacked, I thought they were the same thing only the potion was ST with a longer duration and the spell was party-wide.
Still learn something new about DM even after 35 years.

[jayrshaw]

Yes - I was surprised when I learned they count as two separate things, myself.


--Jay