Final call for suggestions...

[George Gilbert]

Just a quick note to say that I now have a reasonably stable version of the text format and am in the process of putting the final additions and fully documenting them.

In all V0.13 is looking good for the first release which will allow you all to fully edit dungeons. That release will be a provisional one (namely the format will still be subject to change depending on what comments you all will have) but I imagine that it'll be pretty close to final.

On the downside, I'm very busy at the moment, and will be (more) so for the next 4-5 weeks or so. Right now I'm only able to put (at the most) 2 hours a week in and that will drop over the month

So....what I expect is that I'll go into lurk mode for the next month and then come out guns blazing with the all-singing-all-dancing V0.13. More importantly as I'm about to strictly define it if you've got any comments / suggestions about the text format then speak now for forever hold your peace...

[cowsmanaut]

Ok just a little recap of somethings you can say yea or nay..

1. Animation: Ability to define animated objects. number of frames and if the loop or single play upon activation.

2. ability to allow for an object type to have multiple images. Like doors do. (Ie different colours of teleporters, different kinds of stairs, different kinds of pits, etc)

3. the ability to define objects. IE a wall that that moves back and forth with spikes on it, a large boulder that you can push around, a wall with hit pionts, lava, etc.


2 and 3 kind of coexist. The idea being that you can define a dungeon element by setting attributes.

1. if it moves or not(how it moves <IE follows party, follows path, random)
2. How it looks what bit map(s) to use
3. If it can dammage the party (how <how many hitpoints> if touched, attacks, if activated)
4. dungeon element attributes (door, switch, telelporter, pit, stairs, wall, fountain, alcove, altar, etc)

this is by far the most complicated addition to the format however it will allow for someone to build DM2 out of it since it had a number of things in it that are not in DM or CSB.

some of the things in DM2:

A corridor filled with large electrodes that pulse in order back and forth down the hall. You need to time your way through them.

A hall with two doors and a switch that starts a wall moving that has big spikes on it.. you can use this to trap creatures in and crunch them ther is also something hidden behind this moving wall that you can reach if you activate it and run to the other door before it comes back.

Large crates that you can move around that sometimes contain things like full bombs or food etc

large boulders you can push around

teleporter pads activated by a special object you hold in your action hand.

a rotating water powered generator thing that you can drink from.

gemstones on the wall that you can pry off.

and the list goes on...

[cowsmanaut]

there were also fireball reflectors. they could be defined as fireball shooters that ware activated by a fireball. However you would need to impliment this absorb the fireball thing since they shouldnt explode then carry on...

[Gambit37]

I just wanted to ask if the format can currently handle one trigger switching another trigger from inactive to active (and vice versa). So for example, could you make a wall object that can't be pressed by the party until they've activated a floor pad somewhere else?

[beowuuf]

DM had a category of switch which could only actuivate if it were the last on the tile - if there was something like this, then the emtpy switch to working switch (mentioned ages ago), innactive to active switch, could be done easily

It would be nice to know what simple elements RTC has now, so we know what can and can't be done.

I have a sneaking suspicion some of those DM2 things could be done, or example, having damaging textures and clever behind the scenes work could mimic a moving wall without needing to programme one

I think overall, since all things in the dungeons seem to be concidered independant objects, then having the ability to assign attributes in between types to blur the edges would be good.

For example, able to treat small monsters like rats and chickens as backpack items, pickupable, then you lay them down and they are monsters again and wander off (someone else's suggestion)
Able to create a monster to mimic a wall (so it can be destroyed) but have the ability to attribute the walk-into-it-and-take-damage associated with a normal wall.
Able to create a freindly monster, but it can 'wear' a champion mirror like a wall so that if you click on it, you get the select champion screen (and you could have a kill monster generate if he is selected).

If elements can have attributes interchanged them you can have even more scope to create cool effects...just a thought

[cowsmanaut]

that champion mirror thing is cool... This way you could have a statue and you click it to see the hero and then if you pick them they become flesh and join you. so all that is left is the portion they wer standing on which you could walk over.. it would be neat..

[Zyx]

Ok, here are a few suggestions:

1) About pad events:
a) Will they exist?
b) Possibility to trigger xp bonus, a music, a text with/without graphics, with/without sound, with/without
some multiple choice answers, a riddle (you must type the correct answer), and obviously all the functions of pressure pads.
c) Possibility to be triggered by owning several items, killing all monsters or specific monsters,
when a monster dies (maybe monsters could chest events), timeout events.
d) Level events or general events (no need to step on them)

2) About wall objects:
a) A wall object that gives an object if activated (by mouse or a specific object), without limit.
In DM you can do this but only once, I think.
b) Wall objects or pressure pads that cast spells: possibility to choose directly the runes,
so you can cast light for example when you're near a full torch holder, or a puddle which gives
you magic footprints when stepped on.

3) About creatures:
a) Set a patrol range for creatures:
none would mean the creature can move freely
0 would mean the monster stays on the same tile
1 would mean the monster won't go further than one tile away from its starting tile
etc.
b) Possibility to set their general attitude (moral): coward, neutral, aggressive, pacific.

4) About bitmaps graphics:
a) "Backround" option for a graphic, so you can add another graphic above it.
(For example a wall moss, and above it an alcove)
b) For each level a probability of random graphics and the list of weighted random graphics:
E.g.:
Floor Randomness: 2%
30% puddle, 40% slime, 30% crack
Wall Randomness: 100%
30% trees BACKGROUND, 20% bushes BACKGROUND, 50% woods BACKGROUND
c) I hope it perspires from this example, a way to change the graphic set:
*With randomness set to 100% and the option background.
*the trees bitmaps would be the same size of the wall, the floor bitmaps would include floor and sky.
I don't know if there will be perspective problems, or "gaps" in the walls or floor where the old
wall set appears.
Also, I'm not sure if it's possible to add entries in the bitmaps.txt and use them for the dungeon...

[Gambit37]

(4a) can be done already - you just define a new object and place the two of them on the same tile - whichever is last shows over anything underneath.

[beowuuf]

That's what zyx means...in dm,. the last graphic shows only...so you can't have moss and alcove, or a drain and wall hook, or crack and manacles, visible on the same wall tile.

I agree, it would be nice to have the option to have two objects visible, or even just redefine the background that each thing is drawn over (so a close/opened alcove will still have moss underneath)

[Gambit37]

Yes, re-read what I wrote 'anything underneath shows through' - i.e, if objects on top have transparent areas then what's underneath will show through if it's larger than the overlay graphic or in a different position. So you can build complex objects simply be defining new ones then overlaying them. Clearly you have to be careful that the layering is logical and that if any of the objects on the tile are activated that their activaton doesn't make the graphics layering go strange. But it can be done already - this is one big difference between RTC and DM. George made that quite clear in a posting way way back....

[beowuuf]

Aha *rubs hands* I was wondering about active object if this was the case..could you have a switch inside an alov, etc

[Gambit37]

Funny that, I was thinking the same thing (a la Captive). You'd have to be careful with the design though - I imagine there would be no side view for such a thing as the alcove would obviously not make it visible from the side. I don't think you can *not* specify a bitmap for different views for the same object in RTC, but it could be achieved by using a fully transparent bitmap.

[cowsmanaut]

putting it in an alcove may be a problem. Can you have a place where you can put things and still have a switch in it? I know you can activate things with item pads in alcoves but that's a far cry from an actual switch.

Remember that you can click on objects if there is something in your hand so you could be reaching in and clicking the button without knowing it was there..

[amaprotu]

Back to the topic:
I would like the ability to have the following George:

Pressure pads that are only trigered when the dungeon is entered at a certain difficulty level.

Pressure pads that randomly work or don't. Ideally if it is a hit once pad (those exist right? in some roundabout form at least?) if it was randomly decided the pad wouldn't work, that would be the only chance. Ie you can't keep walking on it til it does. Would be nicest if there was a probability factor in this for each pad, but 50-50 would work (just chain a bunch together for lower probabilities).

Pressure pad full screen text events (as already mentioned I think) - full screen scroll image or something with text on it. For plot advancement, goal setting, story explanation etc. Might be better if it was just a bmp or jpg that was flashed to full screen.

I think those would give me all the control I really need. =)

<p>Amaprotu
Mahkahl Darkwolfe "Avvisione"
Flezz Fuu
</p>

[amaprotu]

I just thought of something that could be really cool....
Could hero activation be tied to a switch/button? Such that choosing a hero flips the switch i mean? This way you could have some rooms that only open if you choose the right party member etc. This thought came to me as I was reading the 'random dungeon' thread, and was thinking how you could have different dungeons depending on which characters were chosen. I think it has lots of possibilities.

[cowsmanaut]

in order to pick 1 of the 2 secret characters in CSB it closes the door to the other so you can only have one.. so it is a switch.

[beowuuf]

Just for interest, zyx is producing a dmute dungeon on this principle of character choice making the play different. It's called conflux, and from what i've seen so far it's pretty cool.