picklocks

chiefy · Post by **chiefy** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:26 pm

you can program the various locks in your DUNGEON to accept a picklock alongside the key that is intended to unlock the door

you simply add an 'a' line number e.g

2345 wall_item_lock ruby_key
2345a wall_item_lock picklock

the actual example is not containing the right words but you get the picture with the small 'a' now right?

but to enable picklocks you have to go through EVERY SINGLE keyhole that you have listed and add an 'a' command

if you don't, then that keyhole will not accept a picklock, simple as that

it is a mind boggling chore to do, surely the whole idea of a picklock is that it will pick any flippin lock !!

is there a command that will allow ALL keyholes defined to be accessable by picklock or do members prefer the system of the dungeon author picking and choosing just his favourite keyholes to be effected?

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:30 pm

Poor old chief, that does seem like quite a chore to do, but thanks for the tip on the lockpicks, I will put them in the guide.

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:39 pm

I don't agree! If all locks opened using the lockpicks, it would make the dungeon too easy. It's something that the designer should decide for themselves; plus it adds the possibility that some locks might open with lockpicks, but they might also trigger a trap. That's what FTL did with CSB...

BTW, you don't have to add 'a'--the ref number can be anything you want. The important bit is that both locks target the same door. Have a look at this sample from CSB:

Code: Select all

1098	FLOORITEM_GENERATOR_MONSTER		30	7	0			GENERATES=(MONSTER_DEMON_VIPER)	NUMBERS=(1)	HEALTH=(500)	OPTIONS=(SOUND:SOUND_STEP_ANIMAL)
1130	DOOR_IRON					29	11	0			STATE=(CLOSED)	
1131	WALLITEM_KEYHOLE_SKELETON		30	11	0	NORTH		
1131a	WALLITEM_KEYHOLE_SKELETON		30	11	0	NORTH		OPBY=(KEY_SKELETON)	ACTION=(ACTIVATE)	TARGET=(1131c,1131e)
1131b	WALLITEM_KEYHOLE_SKELETON		30	11	0	NORTH		OPBY=(KEY_LOCK_PICKS)	ACTION=(ACTIVATE)	TARGET=(1131c,1131d,1131e)
1131c	WALLITEM_RELAY				30	11	0	NORTH		ACTION=(DEACTIVATE)	TARGET=(1130)
1131d	WALLITEM_RELAY				30	11	0	NORTH		ACTION=(ACTIVATE)		TARGET=(1098)
1131e	WALLITEM_RELAY				30	11	0	NORTH		ACTION=(DESTROY)		TARGET=(1131,1131a,1131b,1131c,1131d,1131e)

If you study this, you'll see that using the skeleton key opens the door, but using lockpicks opens the door AND triggers a monster generator!

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:47 pm

Ooh, this sounds cool, I will be looking at this in detail when I get back home and putting this into the guide.

I have to say I get more impressed with RTC every time I look at these files. Its an incredible piece of work.

Good work GG. Have a beer for me.

chiefy · Post by **chiefy** » Mon May 12, 2003 2:51 pm

what is the point of all these a, b, c sub number references then?

they seem unnecessarrily complicated to bother with, if we don't actually need them surely

Andyboy, I checked out your guide to writing dungeons m8!

that sure is a respectable achievement squire, top work indeed

I like the bit where you cautioned ppl on the "painstaking process" hehe you got that right for sure

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon May 12, 2003 3:00 pm

The a,b,c refs are just George's way of keeping connected objects together: If you have one reference, in the case above 1131, it easier to see which items are connected to the same puzzle if they use the same number but have a,b,c etc... They could just as easily be 1131,1250,1890,2450 whatever, but it would be much harder to understand!

I agree Andy: RTC is a very impressive piece of work. It's also great that George is so open to suggestions. For those of us who were here at the beginning (v0.1) it could only do basic stuff, but over the last couple of years (wow, where's the time gone!) RTC has become a fully-fledged dungeon editor. Hats off to George!

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon May 12, 2003 3:54 pm

I wish had been here since the beginning. But Im here now, and making up for lost time

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:47 pm

indeed you are! It's a great service you are doing to the RTC/DM community.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:02 pm

Its all a diversion away from my plan to take over the world.

Muhahahahhahaaaaa

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:05 pm

hmm.. perhaps I shouldn't have just given you more power then eh? Seems like you just got mod access to this forum.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:27 pm

Hey Thanks Cows.

Its ok Im sane really.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon May 12, 2003 6:25 pm

@ andy: Lol, as long as you don't change your name to 'Dr. Doom' or 'The Brain' then its all good

As a philosophy for lock picks, in my *only* dungeon I had keys able to open and close doors, with lockpicks only able to open locks, and usually from the reverse side - so you needed to solve the puzzle to open the door, but you could the chuck the key, and if you've forgotten anythign but closed the door the lock picks would get you back.
They also tended to spring locks that replied on you not doign something stupid earlier : )
Also, i think you coud have the lock picks able to open a door, but when they do you get a swap to a 'broken picks' - so they are liek a single 'get out of jail free' card

Just out of interest, in the alphanumeric string, which comes first? 0 - 9 the a - z? Or is it place dependant? As in 1324 appearing earlier i nthe .txt file takes precidence over 1111 if its written later?
I've forgotten the rules!

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:12 pm

do lockpicks have a number of uses? If they did then you could have diferent types. Rustly lockpicks would bend or break after 2-3 uses. Where as you could have a set that were made of some elven metal that last for 100 or more uses.

moo

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:16 pm

Nope, they don't have a CHARGE. But if George changed so that they do, you could quite easily do what you suggest by using the CONVERT_TO parameter to change them into boken lockpicks when the charge runs out.

The only problem that I can see is that the CHARGE parameters only seem to appy to those objects that have actions associated with them; i.e. you can put them in your hands and options appear in the characters action menu. Perhaps lockpicks could change so they have a PICKLOCK option?....

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:41 pm

good idea. It would allow you to include at a later date other tools perhaps. Like a wrench that had a turn clockwise, turn counterclockwise set of functions. A billows with a "fan flames" function. Each on of these being like keys and triggers. However it opens up the playing fied for new dungeons.

moo

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon May 12, 2003 9:12 pm

Currently of course you can do this, it just takes more background mechanics

You have the lock with a number of bjects with options - picklocks -> used, used -> semi-broken and semi-broke -> broken, all also activtign the door, etc

What might be interesting, if the fucntion isn't already supoorted by wall objects, would be having the probability aspect of floor pads attached - so you can keep trying the picks at maybe a 1 in 3 chance of working, but each activtion generates a creature. Or perhaps a counter - try five times and a guard is woken and comes out to see about the noise

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:06 am

you know.. you could probably get a number uses out of lockpicks the way they are right now. If you made a set of them.

Say for instance you had new lockpicks, then used lockpics and then bent lockpicks and then broken lockpics. Now if you set up instances that if you use new lockpicks on a lock you get back used and so on. I'm sure you've caught on to my train of thought by now so I'll quit while I'm ahead.

moo

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue May 13, 2003 9:42 am

I was going to comment that this can't be done in RTC yet; but luckily I'm wrong! I thought that the 'swapping' of items into the champions hands was handled by special code, but after checking the firestaff/gem structure, it's a standard dungeon mechanism, so what you suggest would indeed be possible. The key (no pun intended) is that the objects you want to swap to must be 'off level' (-1,-1,x) and you target them using their ID number and an action of RELEASE. Works lovely!

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:04 am

Each time I come to post a reply it seems that you've solved the original problem; I should not post more often :-)

I think everything Gambit has said above is correct. The particularly important things are

- You can DESTROY_ITEM and RELEASE a new one to swap items on a trigger (see how the firestaff is changed into the firestaff plus gem in DM)

- The item reference codes (the first column in a text file entry) are completely arbitary - you can use numbers, letters, whatever you like (apart from tabs!) and it won't make the slightest bit of difference to the dungeon so long as each item has a unique reference code.

- The only precendence is in where the items appear in the text file; for items on the same tile, those which come later in the file will be drawn on top of those that appear earlier in the file (remember, totally independent on what the reference code is). You should bear this in mind when stacking standard items on the floor and when doing doors; the frame should come first, then the button, then the door itself otherwise it will look silly!

- The other place precedence matters is if you have a number of teleporters / triggers on a tile. They will get evaluated "from the bottom of the tile up" (i.e. those which appear earlier in the file, will be evaluated first. So if you have two teleporters, the first teleports monsters only, the second teleporting everything then monsters will go to the first destination, everything else will go to the second. If you put the teleporters the other way arround, then everything will go to the "everything" destination and the monsters only teleporter will never be activated.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:17 am

Cool

What about the probability aspect - is it the same in wall objects as it is in floor objects?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue May 13, 2003 3:16 pm

Yes - I think so!

(read: it should be, so let me know if it isn'!)

Post by **Lunever** » Thu May 15, 2003 4:56 pm

I think what would be nice indeed is to have an option in the config like lockpicks_random on/off. If it is off, lockpicks behave exactly like they do know, if not, lockpicks behave like EOB lockpicks, with a percentile chance of opening a lock not specifically designed to be pickable, chance dependent on ninja level, and a difficulty dependent on lock type (iron lock = rather easy, but not to easy, master lock nigh to impossible), and a chance to break (= being converted_to), again influenced positively by ninja level, and negatively by lock difficulty.
Of course that would be extra code, but dungeon format wouln't be touched by this.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:45 pm

Just out of interest, what alternative items would poeple use as a lockpick?
I remmeber I had a lock that could be picked by a dagger which was convieniently nearby...never found out if this was obscure or not

(Just like the zokathra melting locks...never would have tried that one myself!)

Post by **Lunever** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:12 pm

In what dungeon was this dagger-pickable lock?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:28 pm

For all my playing around with hex I've only ever released one, called DM: Alt : )

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