editors and tools

[sucinum]

i was using dmute and textmute only so far. now im hearing of dmedit.
which editor/tools should i be using now to get the best out of my future dungeons? mainly dmute and the others for details?
to be honest, i never tried dmedit :(
can you give me a short overview which tools are the best in which cases?

[ChristopheF]

When it is finished, DMEdit (developed by Sphenx) will be far more powerful than both DMute and Textmute.
It will remove all the limitations of DMute which can only "mute" objects: you cannot add / remove objects. DMute only allows you to modify the existing dungeon.

DMEdit will be a real editor where you can really add/remove items, doors, texts, etc... You can put more monster types per level, you can have up to 16 levels in your dungeon, ...

The version available in the Miscelaneous Files Upload forum is still an early beta version with limited functionnality, but it already includes some things that you cannot find in DMute.

If you have enough patience to wait for the next release, then you will have more freedom to express your creativity.

[beowuuf]

Basically what i would do is semi plan your dungeon

there are hex tricks and some trigger functionality dmedit can't do

what dmedit can do is get passed item limits, and monster/object limits

so basically do all the complex stuff forst in textmute.dmue, deleting simple triggers and areas if necxessary, then fill in the gaps/create new areas with DMEdit

that's what i am planning to do if i ever get round to doing my dungeon !

[sucinum]

after using dmedit, is my dungeon still compatible with dmute?
so you say, i should use dmute for the "raw" design and then dmedit for details like monsters and riddles? does dmedit contain textmute so far?

[beowuuf]

no
100% incompatible

sphenx knows how to do the text now, but no, i don't think current versions of DMEdit do allow text editing

so use textmute first too!

dmute --> textmute --> dmedit

by raw' design i mean complex traps and triggers

dmedit doesn not allow hex editing, but supports all states and triggers/pads that were in my hex manual, for example (i can't rememebr how well 5/85 tricks were supported though)

so any shooter, basic triggers, etc are all doable

play around with dmedit to ge tthe hang odf it's strenghts and limitations first i think : )

[sucinum]

ouch, thats very complicated...and you know how many bugs are left after my dungeons are finished.
so i can use dmedit personnaly only for fully completed and playtested (!) dungeons.
gotta wait for a new version of it i think. maybe sphenx can ask george for the source code of dmute and include dmute (and textmute) fully.

[beowuuf]

Dmedit doesn't need either, it's a full editor, it covers the holes that dmute has, and you need to hex passed,but i would like to see a hex editor in it just for new knowledge found all the time : )

[sucinum]

so dmedit is only missing editing of texts and hexediting?
and the next version will have a texteditor in it??

It will remove all the limitations of DMute which can only "mute" objects

including walltexts and scrolltexts?

[beowuuf]

Yup - all of these, as far as i know, are only set by internal numbers at the start.
Because DMute was analysing existing dungeons, then alter anything and DMute cannot read it, whereas DMEdit dynamically reads these indicators first, and also knows how to add objects.

I'm only going by indications of what I know Sphenx can do, so I assume that textediting will be in the next : )

[sucinum]

ok, i wait for the next version then...i dont need too much hexediting :D

[sucinum]

one question:
would you mind me to build another towers dungeon?
no remake of the prison again, but...erm...with towers :)

[Christopher]

I wouldn't mind. Would you be making it the full 16 levels? That would be okay for me but I imagine it might be a bit much for others.

[beowuuf]

16 levels?
And no, the towers idea is good

I liked the Imprisoned again where the towers are linked at two levels (kinda CSB like where you have the first and second half of the path).

[sucinum]

ok, thx, atm, im planning it on scratch and collect ideas...i hope im ready with that until the next version of dmedit comes to build it.
if i can use 16 levels with dmedit, i will do :D

[Christopher]

I'm working out a dungeon right now to which I need the new dmedit in order to finish. Will this version by any chance have any bigger dungeon areas or will it be the usual 31x31 for the most part?

[sucinum]

hmmmm...bigger than 31*31 would help me, too.
what about rtc? when its going to be finished??
im not too often at this forum atm, because all of this testing is too complex (and boring) for me...beowuuf can surely tell details.
for me, it looks, as if george is only adding loads of un-DM details in it, which will surely make it a great editing tool but will also make it more complex and later to be finished.

[beowuuf]

31 x 31 is a system limitation, not an editor limitation : )

and RTC is on version 0.20 - so i think we are gettign towards the almost there stages - i'm guessing the next version or two will be 1.0.

For the moment play it, i don't thin kthe format will change much again, so thigns will be backwardsly compatable - add ideas and stuff before it's too late, and help stabalise the format

but yes, RTC supports stupidly high level sizes - woohoo!

i belive a 256x256x256 dungeon cube


And george's ethos has always been not to make it un-DM, so he has resisted lots of DMJ like suggestions, or ther suggestion,so the format still remains basic but flexible enogu htodo complex things

The only things he has added are pillars and damage tiles - and if you look at DM 2, these things exist, so there you go : )

[Sphenx]

Maybe you'll want to hear a couple of precisions about my editor? here they are:
1) there will be no hexediting, because it is very boring for me to implement that, and because when complete, NO hexediting should be required at all by the user, since nearly all objects will be handled as they should be. And it should prevent user from making wrong objects.
2) there will be no text editor within the program (because it is also boring to implement). you'll actually edit texts with a simply text editor (i.e. notepad) and the program will allow you to export/import texts into a dungeon.
3) maybe you guess: actuators are the most complex objects to deal with, but, in the next version of the editor, you will be able to give them any value you want, without hexediting, and better: you'll see the meaning of the value you change.

[Sphenx]

For those that are still interested in editors, forget DMEdit and try DMBuild.