ways to train ur champions

[Hellraiser]

Would you mind telling me what you think about my training methods and post better ways?

Priest training: I start off with some Ya pots and Vi until they reach apprentice - then I start casting Dane pots and use em to boost their wisdom which will allow me to create more powerful Dane pots without failure which in turn will result in faster leveling.
btw - can anyone tell me how the Mana increase is calculated? I couldnt figure yet if there is any difference when leveling with 170 wisdom(from dane pots) or with the base wisdom...

Wizard training - same :) gotta have good priests first to support dane pots. I usually push em to 170 wisdom and start casting MON fireballs when they reach Journeyman or craftsman.

IMO the best location for wiz and priest training is the Screamer gen on level... 5 I think or 6 Enough food and water.

Fighter training gives me a headache - takes a heck of a long timeas soon as u reach journeyman... Any suggestions on how to speed it up?

Ninja training: :) bad for my mouse good for my heros lol - I just keep throwing around my inventory until they are all adept...

Suggestions?

[Christopher]

I remember trying to make Torham gain a whole lot of HP on his next level up by getting him up to 210 or so in Vitality (which plays a part in the amount of health you gain in a level up) and it didn't work. Does the Wisdom boost really make you gain levels faster?
Fighters: Jab is the fastest method for early leveling up. Keep in mind that the farther down you go in the dungeon, the faster you gain levels.
Ninja: Punch option is good for gaining quick levels. I'm going to test out the projectile weapons soon to see which ones gain you levels the fastest. I'll post the results here.

[Zyx]

Hi, just having a glimpse on the DM Web... there is a lot of new stuff!

You gain more xp if you're attacking a monster than swinging at the air and even more if the monster just hit you.
So I look for an isolated screamer, face it and start warcrying, swapping my front characters with the backguard when they're too wounded.
You can gain fighter and priest level this way, even if you don't have mana (Halk...)
When I get tired, I punch the screamer for Ninja levels.
Mana is used only for lighting as they is no other way for wizards to gain levels than casting spells at early levels (you can gain levels with a vorpal blade otherwise)

[Christopher]

I remember trying to make Torham gain a whole lot of HP on his next level up by getting him up to 210 or so in Vitality (which plays a part in the amount of health you gain in a level up) and it didn't work. Does the Wisdom boost really make you gain levels faster?
Fighters: Jab is the fastest method for early leveling up. Keep in mind that the farther down you go in the dungeon, the faster you gain levels.
Ninja: Punch option is good for gaining quick levels. I'm going to test out the projectile weapons soon to see which ones gain you levels the fastest. I'll post the results here.

[Christopher]

Wow, that was wierd. Anyway, I thought that you gain the warcry levels slower if it doesn't work, which it wont on screamers.

[Christopher]

TEST ON PROJECTILE WEAPONS

This test was done with a character who had no Ninja levels (person was reincarnated). The test was done on the first floor by throwing or shooting at a wooden door. The results are inconclusive since it was throw-at-a-wall-from-first level-until-you-gain-one-Ninja-level deal. Some day when I am bored, I'll test it with someone going from journeyman to craftsman to make it more accurate. Test subject had all stats set to 50. I tested one object three times and got the same result so the results should be accurate in that respect.

Dagger Thrown: 16
Poison Dart Thrown: 15
Club Thrown: 18
Rock Thrown: 16
Slayer Thrown: 14
Arrow Thrown: 18
Throwing Star Tossed: 16
Sling Shot: 13
Bow Shot: 13
Crossbow Shot: 13
Speedbow Shot: 13

In conclusion fasted method (in theory) would be to throw a Slayer.

This is only a generic test. A more accurate test would be to test this against monsters, starting from a higher Ninja level, at a lower level in the dungeon, and using punch as well.

[PaulH]

The way I used to gain priest levels quickly on lower levels was to cast EE potions (mana) as you get some of that mana back you expended, surely the most efficient way.

[Hellraiser]

My point is - if u boost ur wisdom ur spells dont fail that often and u can cast stronger ones who in turn give more xp - thats why u level faster with high wis

[Christopher]

I know how it works. I thought it should work the same with Vitality, but I was wrong.

[Hellraiser]

- (0)
Neophyte (500)
Novice (1000)
Apprentice (2000)
Journeyman (4000)
Craftsman (8000)
Artisan (16000)
Adept (32000)
Expert (64000)
Master (128000)
Master (256000)
Master (512000)
Master (1024000)
Master (2048000)
Master (4096000)
Archmaster (8192000)

Thats the xp values required to level - now I wonder how much xp u get for an action. Does anyone know specific values like - mon Fireball at a wall or something?
Thinkin about Christopher's results in that ninja test I conclude that it would take some 246000 Poisondaggers thrown or around 213000 slingshots to reach archmaster :p
Ill try that with Craftsman - should take 140 poisondagger throws to reach that level.

Btw - I think xp gaining for wiz or priest is somewhat dependent on your wisdom or something else... Some characters seem to gain levels faster than others - Elija for example seems to gain those much slower than Chani but I didnt do extensive testing on that issue yet...

[Hellraiser]

Test results:
subject: Gando (reincarnated)
I will keep throwing poison darts and count the number of throws to reach each level
neophyte: 15
novice: 15
apprentice: 29
journeyman: 59
craftsman: 118

conclusions: until novice it looks like 33.3 xp per throw at a door which let me expect 240(not 140 like I accidently wrote in my last post) darts to reach craftsman - actually it is a bit less(236) which gives us a more precise estimation on how many throws are needed to reach archmaster
33.9 per throw - about 242000 throws for archmaster :) still pretty much eh?
I will now start some testing on screamers.

[PicturesInTheDark]

If you try Chaos Strikes Back for Windows ++ (based on Chaos Strikes Back for Windows v3.0) by DjArcas you can see via a cheat menu what xp is awarded for which actions on the different levels.

Although it may not be conclusive for DM, it will give you an idea of what is going on.

[Hellraiser]

test results
subject: Gando(reincarnated)
test conditions: throwing poison darts at screamers only
I expected to take somewhat less than the 15 throws found in the first test.
Surprisingly it took 25 throws to level to neophyte - I tried 2 times - no change

I conclude that xp gaining is somehow related to the damage done.
Maybe the engine assumes that the dart does a specific damage to that door and therefore grants a certain amount of xp to the hero.
I will start another test throwing darts down a long hallway where they will drop on the floor before reaching some wall or door.

Ill keep you informed...

[Hellraiser]

Surprise, surprise :)

Throwing poison darts down a hallway without letting them impact on some obstacle earns u exactly the same ammount of experience like throwing them at the wooden door from test #1.

Im afraid I cant figure out why throwing at screamers takes almost double the amount of throws to level. Any idea anyone?
Suggestions are welcome...

[Paul Stevens]

It is more than a little complicated. Here is the CSB code
for adjusting experience: Edited for clarity .... ;-)

NOTE: d.Long12950 appears to be the time at which
a monster most recently attacked the party. Time is
about 1/6ths of a second. So you see there is a penalty
for some skills if no monster has attacked for over 25 seconds
and there is a bonus for some skills if a monster has attacked
within the last 4 seconds. In other words, a dangerous situation
gives more experience. And, of course, there is the difficulty of
the dungeon level that is taken into account.

NOTE: See ASCIIDUMP.TXT (near the bottom) for some hints
about the various kinds of attacks.

NOTE: Turn on "Attack Trace" and "Timer Trace" and you will get
some information about what is occuring inside the program.

NOTE: I tried throwing the club at the first mummy on level 1.
If I put the club in in my weapon hand and executed "THROW'
it was quite different from holding the club in the mouse cursor
and throwing it by clicking in the viewport.

*********************************************************
void AdjustSkills(i32 chIdx,i32 skillNumber,i32 Experience)
{//(void)
D7W = sw(Experience);
if ( (skillNumber >= 4) && (skillNumber <= 11) )
{
if (d.Long12950 < d.Time-150)
{
D7W /= 2;
};
};
if (D7W == 0) return;
D6W = d.pCurLevelDesc->experienceMultiplier();
if (D6W != 0)
{
D7W = sw(D7W * D6W);
};
pcA2 = &d.CH16482[chIdx];
if (skillNumber >= 4)
{
if (d.Long12950 > d.Time-25)
{
D7W *= 2;
};
};

****************************************************
D7W is then added to experience.

[Lunever]

Ah well, in RTC the weight of a thrown object is important for ninja xp, so boulders and stone clubs are good for training (not forgetting to throw them at a deep level for more xp, like the dragon den). Paul R.S. or anyone else: Do you know, whether weight is taken into account in FTL-DM?

[Christopher]

Weight should not matter. I mean sure it takes a lot of strength to throw something like a bag full of Pyro Ore (try it some time), but I just can't picture a ninja gaining a level by doing that. I doubt that weight matters in DM because you gain a level faster by throwing a slayer then you do for throwing a club.

[Lunever]

Well, the question was not whether it should, but whether the engine does take weight into account or not.

[Hellraiser]

doesnt look like it does - as like Chris stated u level faster with a poison dart than with a club which is undoubtfully heavier :)

In one respect weight indeed matters - try trowing chests to gain levels - it will not only take longer but as well eat up ur stamina quite rapidly where u can throw poison darts virtually without taking a break :)

the problem with leveling by dart-throwing later on is quite obvious - darts cant be reused once u hit the monster before it is dead :) now try killing the dragon with poison darts (rofl)

killing screamers with poison darts looked like an easy way to level faster because they cant take many darts - in fact the early screamers die from the first or second - whatever the screamers from the Generator wont die that quickly - takes 2 MON fireballs to kill em...

[Christopher]

Yes. Thank you Hellraiser. I'll stop posting now.