Versions of Dungeon Master

DR · Post by DR » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:33 pm

I am currently playing RTC, which I assume is identical (except for the spellbook) to the latest DM PC-version. I played the original DM several years ago on my Amiga machine and I noticed that some details are different.

In the Amiga release I played,

- you cannot drink directly from the fountains, but you need an empty flask or waterskin instead
- you cannot tap on the wall to detect illusionary walls
- the LO power anti-poison potion is effective against all kinds of poison
- the Ra doors on the Firestaff tomb open just like normal doors
- the Ruster monster has no effect on the champion's iron armors
- monster of different kinds do not group together
- the "heal" action (wand, etc) does not use charges, and drains the champion's Mana directly
- the *Bow weapons do not snap when shooting
- objects in chests are automatically piled to the left side (the empty spaces are grouped together to the right side)
- while in Dungeon Mode, you cannot take an object and put it directly into a champion's knapsack without passing in Inventory Mode

Also, on the rear side of the Amiga game box there is a screenshot showing maybe a very early Amiga release, in which

- when a champion's spell fails, it reports "<champion>'s spell fizzles and dies" instead of "<champion> needs more practice with this priest/wizard spell"

Hoping this was of interest of you.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:44 pm

RTC brings together lots of different version aspects, especially in the CSB dungeon - some mechanics were also only seen in CSB

The ruster was never implemented in DM, but from reports seems to have been hope it would have gone

Gambit is the big expert on versions and version history, and is creatign a site, one aspect of which is to show how DM developed as a game - http://www.dmcodex.com

2

Post by **Lunever** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:27 am

Yes, there are several features from the Chaos Strikes Back version. Mainly, Chaos Strikes Back was only a sequel dungeon released by FTL, but it also had some slight improvements of interface and engine, among them being able to drink directly from fountains and being able to tap walls.
With the wands: I hope George will change this, because I prefer the original mode, using Mana instead of AD&D-like charges.

About the rusters, originally known from the A/D&D Monsters Compendia/Manuals, it is said, that FTL originally planned to implement them the way they are implemented now, but then removed this feature again to eliminate any chance of creating unsolvable savegames. So it is the completion of something that should've been in the original game anyway, and without that feature rusters are pretty dull.
They rust only (metal) weapons and armor now. so if you create a dungeon in RTC you shouldn't use any such weapons or armor to solve important puzzles while using rusters in the same dungeon, or if you do, you should remove the "rustable"-index from that very item.

I like it, that poisoning isn't a simple yes/no-condition anymore, but has several degrees now (although I think, George should introduce a maximum of poisoning.healing at level 6 so a MonViBro will detoxify any character regardless of how many poison he has taken).

The Ra doors work like any other doors, but look more pretty the way they are displayed now IMHO .

I like it, that diefferent species of monsters can walk the same tile now, it makes them more dangerous. But unfortunately they lost their ability to actually group together, I hope this will we re-introduced in some future-release (that is, if there will be a future release at all).

I prefer chest without auto-sorting to the left, they are better to keep your personal order without having to re-sort them every time you take something out and in again.

DR · Post by DR » Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:01 pm

I see. So RTC implements things that were never seen on DM.

Well, in my opinion, the possibility of Rusters spoiling an item needed in the game makes the game much more exciting. ;)

In RTC, Ra doors disappear slowly instead of opening vertically/horizontally like metal or wooden doors. This is the only difference -- they're still material like normal doors, and your champions get hurt if they bump into them.

For the wands, I like much more the "trade Mana for Health" mechanism, too...

Max Cannaday · Post by **Max Cannaday** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:07 am

I know for a fact (verfied) that DM for PC allows you to drink from wells directly, and I know as a fact (that I cannot verify now) that DM for Amiga (at least the version I owned 10 years ago) also allowed me to drink directly from wells.

I was shocked that CSBWin/DM didn't allow me to drink directly from the wells. I suspect that the ATARI/DM did not allow this and that is why CSBWin does not.
- Max

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:38 am

I think CSBwin is based on the Atari ST 2.0 version. The PC version is 3.4...
There are several differences. Like tapping on walls to check if they're illusionary.

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:39 am

I think CSBwin is based on the Atari ST 2.0 version. The PC version is 3.4...
There are several differences. Like tapping on walls to check if they're illusionary.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:43 am

CSBwin is based on CSB. Not DM. Hence its name.
Atari CSB required that you have a container to drink.

I am shocked that you are unaware of these things.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:55 am

Paul: Is there a particular reason to not implement such features in CSBWin?

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Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:09 pm

Only the difficulty of doing it. Remember.....I did
not write this program. Much of it is very mysterious
to me. The fountain and the tapping business can
probably be done. I never considered them important.

I just wrote these two things down but they will not
pop to the top of the stack until quite a few other
things get done.

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:05 pm

I agree on the notion to implement them, even if it's low priority and may take a while. But I would deem it ridiculous that your party might die in a dungeon if you had no flask but fountains and could not drink from them directly...

Regards, PitD

Post by **Zyx** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:18 pm

Just a question about differences between CSBwin an other versions:
If I put a scroll in my hand, the "open scroll" icon is only visible when I return to the dungeon view.
In the backpack view, this icon is not shown, only the "close scroll". Is it the same in PC and Amiga versions?

Wil · Post by **Wil** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:44 pm

The sound issued when you knock the walls is very important in terms of gameplay. Without this, you must head on walls & bang in order to discover fake walls.That's less realistic. I think in CSB for ST, there is no sound, but the hand sprite disappears for a while.
I confirm that you have the walls sounds and the drink-in-fountains features in the PC version.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:39 am

Wil wrote:Without this, you must head on walls & bang in order to discover fake walls.

yes, thats quite normal behavior (for dm). im used to this and even do this in versions with "tapping".

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:19 am

yes, but at the start of an adventure that can be a terminal method!

i uised the 'place objects through hthe wall' method before i learned of this feature

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:31 pm

when my characters are injured, i use all my mana and then go sleeping. so no problem at all.
hmmm. that leads me to a poll....

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:29 pm

You might be woken by something unpleasant in the earlier stages ;o)

Regards, PitD

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:08 pm

if my characters are fit, i don't mind if monsters could have the first blow - if they weren't, the monsters already had this...

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:24 pm

Hmm. Wait for the release of Zyx' latest achievment. You might consider changing your mind.

Regards, PitD

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