Soy, not just for activists anymore.. :)

[cowsmanaut]

What better way to draw the conversation to something simpler than to creat a new non invasive topic?

Have people noticed the increase ins soy products and comsumption of those products?

I myself have switched over to the whole organic and soy deal myself and am enjoying it for the most part. Many of these products are very tasty and even in some cases better than the orriginals. Or at least in my opinion.

I think extra enjoyment comes from the idea that I'm putting less chemicals into me and that now many of the "junk foods" I eat are no longer junk as they contain minerals, vitamins and protiens. Yet, I've lost nothing.. I'm still eating what I like.

What I do see though is that even the average supermarket is now advancing and carrying more of these things.. Right now they are still more expensive however, I think as time goes on they will drop in price.. I think we are recognising as a society that healthy eating is more important as obecity and heart failure.. birth defects and other issues are on the rise. We seem, at least once a month, to link something horrible to something we consume every day.

Has anyone else made the jump? Or thinking about it?

moo

[Zyx]

Oh my god! You pulled the GMO trigger. Now this thread can really be polemic. Although hardly offending...

Here are some facts that I think are true:

* GMO states for Geneticly Modified Organisms.

* The production of soja has been boosted thanks to studies and experiments that lead to new, artificial species: transgenic species as genes from other species (from other plants or even bacteria) were integrated to the DNA of the soy. This new soja is more robust, grows quicker and has resistance to several diseases and plagues.

* Soy is a very healthy aliment, rich of proteins and vitamins.

* There is a polemic about wether transgenic aliments are healthy or not. Usually the main argument is about an association between "natural" and "healthy".

* There is another polemic about the lack of control:
a) Most soy producing countries do not state if their soy is transgenic or not (Argentina is a good example).
b) There have been too few studies on the effects on population. An the existing studies are short termed studies only.
c) The transgenic soy is "contagious", as it can fertilize neighbouring fileds. It can even fertilize plants from other species!

So, to finally answer your question, I consume soy in many of its forms since my tender childhood. I am almost vegetarian for taste reasons. With the GMO wave, there are many new aliments appearing. I regularly try them, as long as I understood first what they are!

[cowsmanaut]

Hmmm, I was aware of the GMO craze though I was unaware of it's apllication to the soy products. That's a reather interesting idea.. all of us running to evade those things tampered with by humans and science only to run to a different source of the same..

I still eat chicken, fish and turkey. Though I avoid red meats.. I rarely touch pork. Eggs I don't eat too often either though I will still break down and have a few now and again. The instances where I do though are when I'm too lazy to bring something better to eat with me and I need food. Food at work is all horrible.. so no avoiding it unless I go hungry.

moo

[Lunever]

The dangerous thing with GMO is not that it is by any means directly harmful to it's comsumers. It is not. But it is a high risk to any surrounding eco system, because it can't be contained within geographical limits. It might substitute other more natural species and by doing so create a severe disturbance in the food chain and other ecological links.

Cows: "Made the jump"? Well, whatever that may mean: I eat all kind of meat except beef in whatever form, I only drink water/mineral water, tea (but no black or green/white tea) and juice, absolute no synthetic drinks/soft-drinks (like coke or fanta ot sprite), absolute no coffee or other coffein, abolutely no alcohol.
I prefer products from ecological farming, although I am aware that you can't be sure of their quality always and can't afford to rely on them solely.
I do eat soy, but I hope that there will be a law forcing producers of all kinds of nourishment to mark genetically manipulated food so people will be able to decide themselves whether they wan't to take the risk to our ecosystem(s).

[PicturesInTheDark]

I'm on the other side of you guys I guess... I eat red meat as well as drinking tea, coffee and smoking (yes, I said the bad word). I'm not against trying soy products (in fact, I'm curious), but as long as they are not properly stating what's in them and if they were made by manipulating genes I will not do so.

One might argue that these informations are not present on soft drinks or even other products as well, but in that case I feel I at least can get the information if I want to. It's possible to decipher "E698" or whatever is on a label by doing some research, but if information is missing I'm very suspicious by nature. But I have to concede, I still need to check if that has already changed since I gave those products a closer examination some while ago.

Regards, PitD

[cowsmanaut]

well, Soy vs smoking.. uhm.. which one has more dangerous chemicals.. hmmmm.

Red meat, Number of reasons I stay away from it.

1. Mad cow is always looming.
2. The number of hormones and antibiotics put into them
3. The way in which they are usually kept and killed.

This is also has to do with why I gave up milk which has residual hormones and antibiotics, as well as puss, and other wonderfull items in it. In addition all humans are lactose intolerant to some degree. Cow milk was not made for a digestive system. So really.. all this pushing for drinking milk for healthy bodies.. not so much. There is also added detriment if you are female. The hormones in there can comepletely mess up a womans body. The delicate balance of female hormones in a womans body helps her inner workings. it's all very important to keep the balance for her to avoid female specific medical conditions. I won't go indepth. However the informationis readily available.

Drinking Tea.. well the wonderfull iron you are getting in that red meat is going away while you drink that tea. Tea strips iron from our bodies. It's not a horrible thing if you keep replenishing it however if you have anemia that can be more of an issue in you feeling good. In that case you need all the iron you can get.

So much people don't know about their bodies and so much of it seems easy to find out. In fact one has to wonder why our doctors don't tell us these things.. or in some cases don't seem to know!

AS we advance in medical science, so too do we advance in the ailments we can get as we strive for that bigger tomato, or more succulant cow. Destroying eco systems in order to advance our technology and in so doing destroying something very important to us. Yet still we do not realise these things untill it is already gone or nearly gone..

moo

[PicturesInTheDark]

I'm not saying it is healthy, I say I like to eat meat sometimes. And I do what I can to ensure it's at least not spoiled or contaminated by buying at places I trust and that are more expensive. Some habits may not be fine but they are still habits I like - since it's my body I see no need to act differently as long as I'm conscious of possible results.

Regards, PitD

[Gambit37]

I'm constantly amazed the more I found out about what goes into the food we eat. Tomatoes amaze me: Not only are the filled with fish hormones, but they are force ripened in ethene -- ever bought tomatoes on the vine to see tiny, unformed, bright red tomatoes? That's clearly not right....!

But it doesn't stop me eating a oot of it. This is partly due to lack of discipline, and partly the fact that I find a lot of my food tastes are basically habits that are hard to break.

I do know that I should cut down on dairy -- but when cheese is so yummy, it makes it very difficult!

[cowsmanaut]

Oh I'm certainly not suggesting anyone do anything they don't wish to do. I most certainly fall prey to my own vices. One in particular is cheesecake. I know it's no good for me but it's just too damn yummy.

I'm only pointing out that I find it amusing that you pointed out that you wouldn't want to touch something you didn't know what was in it for fear it might be harmfull but you are willing to smoke which you *know* is harmfull. It's just my sense of humour. Lots of people do this.

My mother diets and eats all this healthy foods, tries to exercise a whole bunch and yet after a good meal or a session on the exercise bike.. she lights up a smoke. In fact she nearly chain smokes. To me it's like begging the general not to send you to the front lines and then going and playing russian roulette in your tent.

Anyway, we all have our things we enjoy.. some are deserts, some are smoking (various substances), others may be a little booze here and there. None are all that good for you.. however, they bring a little enjoyment to your life.. It's all down to your choice.. balancing joy with it's cost.

moo

[PicturesInTheDark]

Allright.. cheesecake... now you're talking! Anyway, I find it amusing, too, having a habit I know is very likely to cause fatal diseases or even kill me at a point, but I still enjoy it. As long as I do, I will smoke. And curse every restaurant that does not at least have a separate smoking room apart from the ashtray in front of it - that is really a disgrace and not necessary.

But whatever... with smoking I know it can cause cardiovascular (I like the word, sounds nice in english ;o)) diseases and that's it. I know cause and effect, can judge what I want and do or leave it. If I don't know at all what something might cause (and gene manipulation has not had a very good press either so far - if it's all so great, why hide the contents or make them undecipherable ?) I tend to stick to the drugs I know.

Regards, PitD

[copperman]

<SNIP>

[copperman]

Maybe I should pay more attention to the threads here.

I am moving over slowly to a full non-flesh diet. I say non flesh because I like too many things like Fruit Gums etc. to become a full on veggy. Tofu has become my main stir-fry protien. It is also by virtue of the fact it's all the place I get it sells, organic. My reasons for the shift are manyfold, the main being my partner, whom I live with is a vegetarian and I wish to raise my son as a vegetarian because the meat production in this part of the world is either bad or expensive if it's organic. I still enjoy bacon, and I do like meatballs. Although I'm sure I will eventually do away with them too. ALthough we are by "design" an omnivorous species, we live longer only eating vegatables, AFAIK and good diet is good for healthy mental as well as physical wellbeing. Oops I appear to be "soap boxing"

*Ka5pian blushes and gets off his soap box

Anyway, soy is good, as far as GMO goes, I don't have all the facts but if done "responsibly" I guess it could be a good thing.

[cowsmanaut]

To be quite honest, free range poultry and wild caught fish are good sources of protien. The things we need to try to get away from are red meat, pork and milk products. The speed at which chickens and fish grow they are easier to maintain without worry of needing these anitbiotics, hormones and steroids.

The other main Barnyard animals are alive a wee bit longer before meeting the chopping block and being much larger animals they do seem to need a lot of maintinance. They do pump them full of as many things as they can and that just causes problems.

Milk is full of bad stuff your doctor doesn't know about it seems. Mainly if you are a woman. I think I mentioned it above.. but according to tests a number of female hormone dependant diseases are related to our consumption of milk. Others are related to the pill of course but thats off subject.

Anyway, very few people go fully vegan for health reasons. Mainly it's the ideals of how the animals are treated in these corporate farms or simply the fact they can eat a cute little chicky-poo or fishy-wishy.

Being fully vegan take more than just eating tofu.. soy is an incomplete protien.. there are a number of protiens found in most beans but all of them are incomplete which means you need to combine them in order to get complete ones. You need to keep up with your other vitamins by eating iron rich veggies like Spinach. Vegan means hard... and a lot of vegans don't seem to know this.. they just say "oh, I'm not gonna eat meat anymore" then live an a diet of doritos and soda pop. (I'm being extreeme there but you get my point)

anyway.. here Kaspian.. you can have your soap box back..

[Lunever]

Kaspian: Think twice if you really want to raise a growing child as a vegetarian, for two reasons:

1) There are not much problems with being an adult vegetarian, but children still in a state of growth have much more need of a complete supply of essential proteins/amino-acid (don't know whether these would be the correct terms in English). If you want to raise a child in growth as a vegetarian your child will have either to suffer from a lack of nutricious stuff important for proper growth or it will have to suffer from a very detailed lifetime diet-plan.

2) The only strict vegetarian among my friends is my Tai Ji mentor. He has 3 children, all rather young, but he's decided to not raise them as vegetarians for a much more obvious reason: He says he'd put up social barriers for his children if they shall stick to vegetables only while in most households of fellow kids and parents where his children will certainly frequent meat is consumed on a regular basis. So they can decide for themselves whether they want to be vegetarians when they are grown up a little bit more.

[PicturesInTheDark]

As stated above I'm eating red meat, am smoking etc... but the debate is interesting, so is the idea of trying to save resources and find ways to produce more healthy food to avoid mass killings of animals that are stuffed to their throats with all kinds of drugs anyway. One thing that annoys me personally is that since I like to go out eating (you could even call it a hobby) I'd certainly like to try more vegetarian or vegan restaurants - but I was disappointed so far in seeing the things that were offered. I'm probably not well enough informed but I'm positive that the restaurants I was in so far rarely were able to produce the same quality with vegetarian dishes than with the "normal" food that is sold. So that has to enhance before I'm willing to choose a dish (vegetarian or vegan, whatever) without thinking about it (=not having to fear getting something that does not taste good). How's the situation in your countries ?

Regards, PitD