Dungeon Master for Pocket PC / Win CE

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:14 am

Paul Stevens wrote:Have you played DM with the Pocket PC?

no

without a cursor, that's not a too good idea, i agree there

i'll keep that in mind, don't worry, maybe it's at least a nice future option for the desktop-version of csb4win. later

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:43 am

I think I am the 1000th viewer of this thread.
Who started this?

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:30 am

ok so lets see if I have this completely straight. You are only interpreting between interfaces. Ie calls to and from the keyboard, mouse and screen. The atari code blits the graphics to a psuedo screen which you store in some kind of buffer, translate and then send to the actual screen?

So in which case, the only visual modification that can be made really is by either hacking it.. recognise and intercept a call to something and use other bitmaps to replace them. or by doing minor mods to the graphics before you send them to screen (modify the colours, remove some pixels, etc)

what if in the case of the scull and crossbones I provided for you a smaller image that can replace the one in the game but has those two pixel length offsets? that way by removing them you actually fix the image

That could solve one thing.
the other is the wrap around text. The most basic solutions is to take the text which I think is 6x6 pixels per character calculate the max number of characters with those dimensions on the lower text area and then transfer the remainder of the line to the other line down. What this would mean is for shorter lines you would end up with a space after them but at least you wouldn't lose anything from it being cut off at the right. This suffers though as you have a line inbtween that is shorter than the width of the screen wasting valuable text space.

So here again I will try to give a convoluted explaination of what I think could work without any practical method of execution to prove it would work.. or even work well.

what could be done based on your explaination of copying blocks from the atari virtual screen, is to take the entire block read out the number of pixels width wise as mentioned above and past the cut off point test the pixels contained with the end block. If the values are consistant (in otherwords all black since there is not text) then do not carry over. If there is then carry over. Then test the line below that to see if there is text in the same manner. if there is carry it over just after that last block to fill in the rest of the line and now this one will be shorter so again it needs to see how long it is counting by 6pixel increments and then see if it needs to carry over again and so on. Has that tedium you mentioned before .. but it might work. otherewise you just stop at the first check and people deal with the space lost. Mostly seems to be if then statements could do this.

Additional checks that could be done is the alternate colour (the colour in the blocks other than black) to decide if it needs to be carried up to the end of the line. (BTW I think I'll provide a visual for this since I'm getting confused and I think I know what I'm trying to say) so if there is a line of blue text below a line of yellow text it wouldn't pull the blue text up to sit at the end of the yellow text. Sort of a special case..

need to think more about the rest of it.. :/

(edit)

by the way, what do you meain turning the game sideways does not buy very much? the screen for the atari was 320x200 this screen sideways is 320x240. Thats 320x40 more pixels to play with. The only real issue is making it full screen. how that is done I've no idea.. however Lazy old man said it's been done so at least you know it's possible

moo

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:07 am

PAragraph 1. That is right.

Paragraph 2. That is right.

Paragraph 3. Makes no difference if you provide the 'before'
or 'after' version. I have to notice that the screen contains
a skeleton and substitute your bitmap. Then, depending on what
you provide, I will delete the pixels or not. (I was hoping you
would volunteer a drawing. Thanks in advance.)

Paragraph 4. Text. I think the Atari code is straight-forward
enough that I can find where it determines the line length and
change it for the PocketPC. It goes through the text and finds
nice places to split the lines already, I think. It certainly would
be simpler than anything I (or you) have though of. I will try
that first.

Paragraph 5. Yes, I could make it full screen. As I explained
several days ago, I do not want to do that. I want it to be
a very standard PocketPC application with the title bar and the
menu bar. It can be done. I have done it except for the text
line length.....and I have room for extra lines if necessary. You
wanted to make things prettier and it appears that you have found
a way to do it that is pleasing to everyone. Mostly by using the
same real estate for both the Spell and Weapon controls. If
turning it helps then we can turn it. But I want to keep the
Windows controls.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:42 am

wow, I got something right

ok, well the Skull and cross bones (note I actually paid attention to my spelling this time "UGH") i was going to put right into the graphics.dat with ZYX's help if he'll do it

That way it's not a bitmap replacement and you don't need to shift anything, it will simply replace the one that exists already. Then when we get to the beautification of everything I'll make a newer more detailed one to go with everything else.

anyway, about the text, yes intercepting the typed words and drawing in your own would be optimal since then you could determine it all at any point. as for rotating it. nothing would be gained since they window stuff would still be there I'd end up haveing a shorter screen to work with.. and only gain a little width I could do nothing worth while with.. not without decent thought anyway. The only benefit comes from making it full screen which you have your reasons not to do. And the only benfit there is simply maintaining the orriginal layout and gaining a few more text lines.

hmm mooo

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:59 pm

i was going to put right into the graphics.dat

That is a good idea and a bad idea. Good for reasons you, yourself,
already can explain. Bad for reasons I will try to explain......
although often I know things that I am unable to explain in words.

I would like to avoid a proliferation of graphics files. In this case,
for example, we would have to modify the graphics files for
Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, ConfluxII, etc. for each
game that required its own graphics. And for each such game
we would then need to maintain two graphics files, one for CSBwin
and one for CSBwinCE.

I would much prefer to maintain a single graphics file for each
with an 'addon' to adapt the game to a new platform. You already
have to have a different exectuable. Having a CSBwinCE and
a GraphCE is easy to understand.

Moreover, the 'addon' allows people to more easily change the
behaviour to suit themselves. Replace the Skull and
Crossbones with a gravestone perhaps.

Tintomara · Post by **Tintomara** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:08 pm

Makes no difference if you provide the 'before'
or 'after' version. I have to notice that the screen contains
a skeleton and substitute your bitmap.

Uhm... I have a feeling that this solution will be very hard to port. I think it has to be rewritten from scratch for every non-windows platform.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:19 pm

very hard to port. I think it has to be rewritten from scratch

Wrong. Very wrong. I have four platforms going right now.
This version of the video business is going to be much more
portable than the original.

In fact, although this was intended only for the PocketPC market,
I may retrofit this version into the original version just for
the better portability.

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:13 pm

Paul, just tried the 16mar exe - going well, it looks properly playable now!!! are there any major glitches you're still working on?

The main diiference i noticed straight away was the mouse pointer, in the 15mar exe it was static in the bottom left of the ppc screen and now moves to where you last clicked... do you have any plans for the pointer? it's not needed, so do you want to get rid of it? can you? you could lock it in position and just not show it?

But aside from that - it's really cool, great work!!!

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:14 pm

adding it to 3 graphics.dat files is not so bad.. however, should more people be adding their own files then yes it would suck.

however, as I said it would only be for the here and now. But if you want to get right to the adding of bitmaps I won't object. I'll have a new skull for you shortly.

In addition I have the position of the blocks for the screen. and each of the blocks seperated all I need still are the spell symbols since I didn't do all of them. Those should be short order as well.

moo

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:58 pm

http://dmweb.free.fr/Stuff/files/csb_skull.zip

let me explain the naming convention here. the one called NEW_P is a new pallete derived from the colours I was painting. OLD_P is the same image but using the colours from CSB.

these should fit in that tiny health area now.

moo

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:36 pm

do you have any plans for the pointer?

I plan to get rid of it entirely. Is is a nuisance.

I posted CSBwinCE17Mar.rar.

Cleaned up the display a bit. Movement controls on top
of text. Someday I will fix the text so you can tap on it to
see it all. That got the 6 pixels from the viewport back so
you can see the Coatls a little bit better. Also internal
changes in anticipation of fancier controls.

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:26 am

Paul,

Looking good! The layout is fine as you've got in the 17mar exe, if other people can customise it to suit themselves, that'd be nice... But i'd probably use something like this, and if you can get the text to show above the movement (if tapped) all the better...

BUT... The only thing stopping me from starting a game right now, is the reincarnating of my characters... See it works, but when it comes to naming them, it kind of gets confused, not sure if its to do with the pointer or not. Would it be possible to use the PPC virtual keyboard, as an input device for it? or can you fix the DM reincarnate keyboard?

...and thinking of the ppc virtual keyboard... would it be possible to use the devices' directional pad for the movement? forward, back and turn?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:20 am

I saw no reason these things would not work.
So I tried them on my little machine. All work OK.
What exactly does not work for you?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:46 pm

Well, after pressing reincarnate, you have to name your champion. I have to use the DM keyboard, 'cause the ppc virtual keyboard doesn't work for naming them. When i press the keys of the DM keyboard, the 1st letter (say E of Elija) works ok, but when i press the 2nd letter, the cursor is still over the E and it repeats it, so i press the L again, and it accepts it (but it's actually from the 1st time), and then i press I, but it prints (shows) another L. This carries on and i get all sorts of bizarre names with double letters and sometimes missed letters, but as there's no way to move back into a word and delete letters from the middle i'm stuck...

So, have you not had this problem? am i being dense? I've tried to press carefully, slowly, fast etc... but can't get a complete name without errors...

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:51 pm

D'Oh!!! Didn't realise i wasn't signed in!??!

@Paul, The last Guest post was from me about the reincarnate thing...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:10 pm

cursor is still over the E and it repeats it,

Bt golly, you are right. It works rather oddly for me, too.

cause the ppc virtual keyboard doesn't work

What does your config.txt look like? Does it have all the
alphabetic keys defined?

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:25 pm

Sorry for the delay in replying... Long day!!!

What does your config.txt look like? Does it have all the
alphabetic keys defined?

well, i didn't have the config file at all... I'd been running the game from windows/start menu/programs with just the exe graphics & dungeon dats, then by accident i pressed the exe in /storage card/CSBwinCE/ and the game ran fine, exactly as it did from windows/start menu/programs... So i'm confused about that!??!

But, there was no config in either directory because it's kept in the modules folders so when you run the game by the batch files it finds it... So anyway, i copied the DM config to windows/start menu/programs and ran the exe from there, and had exactly the same problems. the config is the same one from the windows csbwin download (lastest), it appears to have all the keys mapped, a through z to a through z, and the movement keys on the keypad etc...

Any help?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Keyboard problem.

I have no idea why it would not work for you. It works
perfectly for me. I posted CSBwinCE18Mar.rar. I added
a MessageBox warning if it cannot find config.txt. That
is the first thing that comes to my mind; that the file
cannot be found.

This version also fixes the problem with the CSBwin's
internal keyboard when Reincarnating Champions. So
you should be able to get by using it.

But we need to fix your keyboard. Let me know if
you do or don't get the "Cannot find config.txt" message.
Then we can proceed from there.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:42 am

if nto for seeing it with my own eyes I would not fathom it.. DM for SNES is 240x193. It's more than the perfect size for the PPC !!??

see for yourself.. this is un doctored taken directly from the nintendo emu

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:43 am

RE: Keyboard problem.

copied the new exe over, loaded fine and the DM keyboard now works ok, but i still got nothing from the ppc keyboard... (it's the standard csbwin (windows) config.txt).

?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:27 am

more than the perfect size for the PPC !!??

Unfortunately, I translated the Atari CSB. And the viewport
on the Atari is 224 wide. It looks like the SNES is quite a bit
narrower.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:52 pm

and IMHO the snes version doesnt have a very nice layout by the looks of it.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:11 pm

well it's not that pretty no.. I just thought it was cool that we're trying to figure out how to fit it into this space and they've already done it in a space even smaller. that's all..

moo

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:12 pm

Ok, I downloaded CSBWin96 and copied the dungeon.dat config.txt and the CSBWinCE2002.exe to the \windows\startmenu folder but I get a cannot find Config.txt?

Am I being thick?

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:00 pm

You'll also need the graphics.dat... and i think it should all be in windows/start menu/programs

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:26 pm

I posted CSBwinCE20Mar.rar

Hopefully it allows you to put all the files together
in any single directory. Portraits, logs, etc will
be in a subdirectry just as they are when using CSBwin.

The Windows\Start Menu directory did strange things
to me. I put files in there and when I looked later
they had been moved to Windows\Start Menu\Programs.
Something special about that directory. Anybody know
what is going on there?

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:43 am

@Paul,

Works absolutley fine! reincarnated and entered the names correctely by the dm & ppc keyboards!!! Also ran fine from "storage card/wincsbce/", but will try a bit more testing tomorrow... just to check the directory works ok!!!

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:48 am

Yeah, it appears to work absolutely fine from my storage card... I have also created a link so that it can be ran from the start menu or from Programs.

The link is here: http://www.appm02.dsl.pipex.com/csbwince/CSBwinCE.lnk i think you'll need to do save target as,

it basically consists of the following line: 39#"\Storage Card\CSBwinCE\CSBwinCE2002.exe" and is currently directed at the directory shown, if you modify the directory, you need to change the 39# to suit the number of characters within the " ".

@Paul, can you embed an icon within the exe? i think the link would then pick that up and show it...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:40 pm

Icon.....I added it to my pile of 3x5s. Working on Hint and
Utility these last two days. Real bummers.

Storage card. I don't understand storage cards. What
kind of memory is that? Does it look like additional file space?
Is it read/write or flash or what? Can you save games
when using it? How big can it be? I need a quick tutorial.