CSBuild? Maybe i should change my name to DenseOldman

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:18 pm

erm... Well i'm trying to use CSBuild 0.817 but it's not going well!??!?!

Ok, i've downloaded from pauls site and copied the csb dungeon.dat from the csbwin directory. When i save with csbuild and copy back it works ok, but if i edit anything, save and copy over, csbwin gives me an "Windows encountered an error" blah blah blah... What am i doing thats wrong??

This also happens with the dm dungeon.dat, and even a new dungeon with 2 empty cells and nothing else!??!

Also, why can't i open the atair dungeon.dats csb&dm in DMute 1.4? i thought it was supposed to do st aswell!??!

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:04 pm

Dmute - it will open the unaltered mini.dat or csbsave.dat files from csb aswell as the usual dm files. if you've altered the files first, or are trying to open csb's dungeon.dat (prison) as you say, you'll find it won't work - it's all based on static knowledge, you see, and george never cracked the layout of the csb prison. DM dungeon.dat though...that's different, that should open

I just tried it on the csbwin files and it worked fine...what dm files are you trying to open, and from where?

CSBuild - weird. i opened the normal files (mini, dungeon and csbsave) in csbwin fine. i then altered the dungeon.dat file to have a few open spaces, saved, and it opened in csbwin ok. I then added a pressure pad that toggled a false wall - stll saved and opened ok. What editing did you do?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:11 pm

Indeed. It does not work for me either.
Sorry about that. I have no idea what is
happening. I'll look into it right away.

I bet you need the latest version of CSBwin
with the dungeons created by CSBuild 0.817.

Edit: Yes....version 9.6v5 seems to work fine.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:27 pm

A fresh install of csbwin9.6 (from the encyclopaedia) crashed with my minimal edited dungeon.dat. Upgrading the csbwin.exe file to 9.6L (earliest i could find quickly) it seems to work again
Don't know if that helps any! Wait...there an edit now...

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:41 pm

i used csbuild 8.17 for my update - did that work, beowuuf? i downloaded the conflux-csb and swapped dungeon and graphics and had no problem at all.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:11 am

It works on the newest version no problem...you just need to warn people to have the latest version of csbwin to play it

LazyOldman · Post by **LazyOldman** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:53 pm

Thanks guys,

I think i also had a problem with CSBuild crashing? i'm not sure now... and i'm not at my home computer now so i can't test...

But i remember opening a dungeon (i think atari dungeon.dat for dm & csb), modded and saved, when it saved with even a very minor mod the filesize went from 35kB to 40kB, so i ticked compress (so both dungeon format & compressed) were ticked, and pressed save, but that's when it crashed?!?! Anyone?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:55 pm

i used csbuild 8.17 for my update

Maybe it is time to release version 1.0? These fractions
appear to confuse people.

Seriously, I promised to release 1.0 after ConfluxII had
survived some real testing by adroit dungeoneers. I think
that has taken place. I will package CSBuild 1.0 sometime
today with the source code. I suppose, that like CSBwin,
I will release two pieces: the runtime and the source. We
will put it on the Encyclopaedia if Christophe thinks that
is the proper thing to do. Christophe?

Version 9.7 of CSBwin is in the wings waiting for the PocketPC
to work a bit better and for the macintosh. I think that version
9.7 will have only the basic user interface on the PocketPC
and that future 'upgrades' to 9.7 will implement some capability
to implement Cowsmanaut's ideas.

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:24 pm

I think CSBuild still has some minor bugs, but it seems stable enough for a "version 1.0" label.

A quick bug report: When editing a level, if I change the experience multiplier and then, without clicking on the OK button, switch to another level, the modifications are forgotten.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:56 pm

Thanks. I cannot know about bugs that are not reported.

Here is what I know about (bugs....not new features):

1) Experience multipler forgotten when switching levels without OK.
2) In DM at 1(25,15) actuator action should indicate toggle
3) Missiles "fireballs" show as "?????" in text area

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:56 pm

Just remembered some other:

1) Often, a tile with a counter and a pushbutton and an AND/OR gate will generate a not implemented message when hovering the mouse on this tile.

2) Shooters lack the "poison bolt" option (they currently offer the "poison blob" and "poison cloud")

Feature request:

3) could you add a search for a certain decoration (wall decoration or floor decoration)

4) In expert mode, could you add an "illegal doors" and allow doors that are not between two plain walls?

For CSBwin:
5) CSBwin accepts monster generators for too many big sized monsters, creating the Invisible Effect(tm). That is, you can have 4 monsters of size 4 in the same tile and they'll be invisible.
But CSBwin will correct such a monster if it loads a dungeon.dat or savegame.dat.
Conclusion: CSBwin should not correct anymore those monster groups.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:10 pm

I can put CSBuild on the encyclopaedia if you want, no problem.

Windows, Linux, Macintosh and soon Pocket PC, maybe others in the future...
I think it starts to get confusing for newbies: "look, you can download the macintosh version of chaos strikes back for windows and Linux which was ported from Atari ST."

Paul, maybe you should rename your program to something else, more generic, like "PortableCSB". Then we could speak of "PortableCSB" in general or specifically about "PortableCSB for Windows", "PortableCSB for Macintosh", etc...

When we speak about CSBwin, we don't really know if it is about the windows version or another port because that term is both generic and specific.

What are the opinions about that?
I don't find "PortableCSB" very nice, but I can't think of something better for now... any suggestions?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:11 pm

1) This must be some sort of special case. There are a lot
of special cases. Whether or not a portrait decoration exists.
Whether or not an alcove decoration exists. I did not invent
these special cases. They came with CSB. But can you send
me a dungeon where this happens or point to a place in
ConfluxII where this happens? I cannot reproduce the problem.

2) Poison bolt. Do you suppose that is what is flying around
in the Flamebain room?

3) Search for decoration. Already in my pile of 3x5s.

4) Illegal doors. Certainly. I added a card.

5) OK. I think I already did this. It is in my pile of
completed tasks and is labeled "9.7 15Feb 2004".

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:55 pm

Christophe's suggestion about renaming CSBWin is a good one -- it is beginning to get rather confusing. Though for those of us who've been here some time, CSBWin has a nice cosy, comforting and familiar ring to it.

Are you open to renaming Paul, or do you think that would cause even more problems....?

Here's a few possible names: FlexiCSB, CSBX (short for CSB Exchange), CSBP (CSB Portable), CSB Macwinux (!), CSBPRUNE (CSB Ported Runtime Engine!)

OK, so I never said these names were any good...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:05 pm

The poison bolt is indeed what is flying around (according to hex in DMute and the things I've seen whacking me in the face)

Chaos Strides Platforms (CSP)?
CSB For All?

DM&CSB4WinLinPortPCMac?

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:10 pm

I say DM pi or CSB pi. Then you can use the Pi simbol.

In this case though it stands for platform independant.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:14 pm

Personally I think CSBwin is starting to have the edges rubbed off it, and i like it as a name...

Is it confusing to new people? Do they realise its dm and CSB and custom dungeons, and its all platforms?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:23 pm

Yes, indeed. I am open to renaming it anything we
find approriate. Perhaps we should, first of all, return
to the name Dungeon Master, that being the root of
the game. I would have called it that if I had ever dreamed
that my program could be used to run Dungeon Master as
well as Chaos Strikes Back. Of course I cannot change
CSBuild to DMbuild because that name is already taken.

Dungeon Master Portable. DMPortable.
Dungeon Master Multi-platform. DMmulti.

On the other hand, we have to make binary releases
for each of the platforms and each must be dsitinguished
from the others somehow. Maybe each should have its
own name. DBmac, DMlinux, DMwin. DMppc.
Or CSBwin, CSBlinux, CSBmac, CSBppc.
Or DM-CSBwin, DM-CSBmac, DM-CSBlinux, DM-CSBppc.
And only in the fine print would one discover that they are
all derived from the same source code.

But this is just thinking out loud. I have no strong feelings.
Except to point out that generalizations are not necessarily
simpler for newcomers. Sometimes it is easier to use the
very special case designed for particular circumstances.

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:38 pm

CSBX is short, I like it. The X reminds of a cross like "crossed platforms"

Or maybe DMCSB-X

1) dungeon sent.

BTW, did you ever try to load DMII maps with CSBuild? They have a very similar format, Sphenx should know the exact differences. But I think they could be easily playable restricting the graphics and monsters

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:47 pm

there was also something about new tile types too...at least one

Des · Post by **Des** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:39 am

For a platform-independent name, how about DM32?

Short, sweet and bitty

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:11 am

How about "Dungeon Archmaster"?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:06 am

how about DM32?

And just what am I supposed to do with my AMD Athlon64???

How about:

for(n=5;;n++)DM&CSB&RelativesThereOf2**n

Nah. Nice but too hard to pronounce.