Free or not free, that is the, er, question

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:37 am

Hi,

First post on this forum, only just found it, but since I was always a huge fan of DM and its sequels it is good to see so many fellow fans

Appologies if this question has been asked before, I'm sure it has, but I couldn't find it posted on this forum anywhere...

My question is this, I know DM, CSB (etc) are downloadable from a site who's URL is posted often on this forum. However, the site makes no mention of copyright issues, and I'm sure someone somewhere owns the rights, so surely this isn't legal? Unless perhaps you own original copies?

I used to own original copies back when they came out. But my old amiga died beyond repair many years ago and I threw it out (I know, stupid) and have since got rid of all my old games... The only thing I can think to do is hunt down second hand copies, which if I then own I presume means its okay to download the emulator copies...

Any advice gratefully received,

Cheers

Oid

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:37 pm

I think pretty much all of us own original copies
of the program. I have an Atari DM, a PC DM and DMII,
and I have two Atari CSBs. It seems that the only
people interested are those who discovered these
games long, long ago and therefore had original copies
at one time. Having had a copy and thrown it away
may not make it strictly legal but it passes my
reasonableness test.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:17 pm

Legal, no.
There seems to be a certain knowledge of the existence of this community, clones, etc by people with the copyrights and no one has been procecuted, so make of it as you what you will, but it should be possible to find original versions on e-bay, etc if you want a clear conscience

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:08 pm

let us put it this way. Were you to buy a second hand copy of DM or CSB the creators would get as much money from that as you downloading it from here. It's not sold any more so their is no loss of income. Nothing to chase after.

Is it technically legal to do this? No. However, it is not as if the copyright holders are not aware of what is going on. As said the majority of us who are seeking the game have made our contribution to FTL by buying the games the first time around. Some of us still have the Disks (like me) some of us simply threw them away when their compter died.

I certainly think it Fair that if you've paid for it at some point you be allowed to play it again without having to pay for it again. Though everquest fans may dissagree since they pay every month to play a game they paid $60 to buy in the first place (shakes head) oh well.

Now, were the game re-released for sale then I'm sure those downloads would be shut down. However untill then..

moo

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:44 pm

Hi again,

Thanks for the advice people, much appreciated.

I used to own the games many years ago, but as I say I threw them away eventually. In particular I remember my DM amiga disk had stopped working anyway, due to the aging process it had died a death.

I'll have a quick look to see if I can buy them at a low cost, it'll make me feel better

Cheers
Oid

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:30 pm

As analternative to DM/CSB you can also download either CSBwin or RTC, or both! : )

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:06 pm

yes the clones are re-written and free for download. and they work better under windows anyway.

moo

Des · Post by **Des** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:49 am

Copyright of old games is a funny business. I recently picked up issue 3 of "Retro Gamer" which featured on its coverdisc the entire Gremlin back-catalogue. The mag only gives out games where the copyright owners have given permission, and possible production of new versions is the main reason for refusal. For example the Ultimate games (some of the best ever on the Speccy and C64) have been excluded - Rare Games (which took over Ultimate) have just released a version of Sabre Wulf for the Gameboy.

Best thing about the Retro Gamer disc was the comprehensive pile of emulators (with clear instructions) that shipped with it. Alas Gremlin only did a few really good games, and a lot of mediocre ones IMHO. Issue 1 had a really great cover disc - I missed it but I'm not paying 50 GBP on eBay for a copy, given that...

... you can download almost any old game off the net at sites like bhlegend and underdogs, so as has been previously stated, it all depends on whether the copyright owner gives a hoot. I don't think George Gilbert and Paul Stevens are shaking in their boots. Actually, "clones" might be an interesting topic for Retro Gamer and/or an article on DM...?

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:02 am

But then there's also the problem of some compaines that do.....but then don't keep their word or re-release their product knowing(or not) the fact that it has a high chance of not working.

I never heard of the "Retro Gaming" magazine though. Is it a european magazinge or it it just hard to find in the USA?

Des · Post by **Des** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:05 pm

Retro Gamer magazine is only sold in the UK, Australia and New Zealand.

Website at http://www.retrogamer.net

The publishers underestimated the demand for their mag and as a result the first two issues are hot property on eBay at the moment.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:21 pm

This really sux! Des, you have some luck living in UK. Such magazine must be an eden for someone like me... but 50 pounds is really a price

I see abandonware as a good choice, though (especially underdogs and bhlegend). Games you can get there are very often totally lost and yet unsupported by the companies which released them. Often these companies don't exist now or they have been consumed by a greater corp., so they cannot support users of their games. And for me it's better option to download a game for free rather than paying for it to someone who will use the money for himself. It's not pirating in a raw form, when companies lose their money. In this point I agree with cowsmanaut. Wasting money on eBay is not worth the box and paper manual

. And in this case (DM) - I consider FTL a dead company (a great loss

), so you can sleep easily I think...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri May 14, 2004 6:28 pm

FTL may be dead but the people with the copyright are still around, so I think it's always good to be a little respectful of the copyright issues still

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:07 am

Being respectful is right, but if you haven't got any other choice, using abandonware is not such crime IMHO... Games offered there are really old and often out of reach now.