Any tips for CSB?

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:37 pm

I just started this game for the first time, and it is hard!! Much harder than Dungeon Master! Is there any words of wisdom anyone can share with me?
Thank You-
BlueFox

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:56 pm

For the very start it's best to just blunder around, not really saving, and restarting often, especially if you fall down pits for the first few times. Just get the hang of 'the start' area - fighting worms, what lies along the corridors, etc such as 'run and jump' and 'supplies for the quick'
Once you think you've got the hang of that area, and got some nice supplies and weapons then decent down to the 'junction of ways'

Once here, keep staggered saved games - you will be amazed at some of the things you can trigger accidentally, and also the fact that there is a certain random element to path choice at the junction. Watch out, as the four main paths in CSB criss cross if you arean't careful - so between the random element and the fact a pit fall can lead to another area, it's easy to get lost. Try to get a feel for the dungeon. It's non-linear, and really replies on circles and loops. You will spot intersection points (such as the junction of the ways itself - these are good places for excess items and food storage

Also, you might spot that the dungeon is upside down - so your ultimate goal is usually on the higher levels, the starting tasks are usually on the bottom

Don't be too proud to use the hint oracle if you are stuc k : )

Hope that's not said too much, have fun

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:43 pm

train your champions in the prison; .... if you reincarnate you gain a few levels this way. They get hungry and eventually start to starve. Save at this point.
When you "start a new game" , they are all full nourished again.

Try attack and retreat tactics on the worms.
Do not let yourself be surrounded and do not stay too long in front of them.
It is not easy at first but if you get the hang of it, you can maneuver around them.

Maybe you like to make maps ; )

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:32 pm

Thank you for your help. I can't tell if I am getting the hang of it? I keep falling threw pits and staggering around up and down stairs, running into endless amounts of mummys and other monsters. I'm staying alive threw most of it, does that mean I am getting the hang of it? I never know where I am, and even if I did, I'll end up some place completely different in just a few steps, and I'll never find my way back. I now understand why they call this game Chaos strikes back, this has to the most chaotic game I have ever played! Also my game doesn't seem to have the magic map, is that helpful?
zoooom- I do love maps

Maps and order
This is one crazy game!
-BlueFox

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:55 pm

The magic map was only in the amiga version

If it helps, if it's mummy floods and other monster floods then you are on the ku (fighter) path. It's alot of hacking but otherwise straightforward

Like i said, very easy to get disoriented - just keep trying to find landmarks and places you have been to before - eventually you leanr the layout, honest!

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:31 pm

eventually you leanr the layout, honest

But we ain't talking days or weeks here. Without cheating
you will keep getting lost for months.

If you can find a waterskin or flask, a source of water,
a source of food (like the worms in the basement), and
a way between these places then you have a start. You can
ratchet the game forward by branching out a little at a time
and saving whenever you get to safety, all the while building
your strength and skills. But be prepared for a LONG haul.

I never did finish on my own. As a mater-of-fact the first time
I finished that game I had already completed writing CSBwin
and finished someone else's game. He got to within a few squares
of the finish and found a bug. He sent the savegame to me and
it took me dozens of tries and several days to complete those
last few steps. This game is a chalenge at the start, the middle,
and the end. Good luck and ask for help when you feel completely
stuck.

JCG · Post by **JCG** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:01 am

Dungeon Master is easy at the beginning and difficult at the end, but Chaos Strikes back is very difficult from the beginning to the end. A real challenge, but not impossible or frustrating like some adventure games when you're stuck dead on a wacky puzzle and the only recourse is the walkthrough(a shame). I enjoyed every minute of CSB.

I bought CSB the first day it arrived in my local Atari Computer Shop ( after too much waiting, the game was delayed several times...), and I was on it night and day till I finished it. I remember the mess on my desk, being surrounded with all the pieces of maps that I was drawing during my explorations, trying to match them ( pits on the floor against pits on the ceiling ) to build the complete map of the dungeon, the only certainty being that the bottom floor is the only floor without pits and the top floor is the only floor with nothing on the ceiling ! ( Atari ST version, no magic map ! ).
With the maps, it was much easier the second time.

Indicate on your maps all the small decorative features found on the walls or on the floor. It will help you to find your way if you're lost.
The Oh Ew Ra spell ( See through walls ) is also helpful to draw the maps.
You must find also all the teleporters and how they work. Many are invisible or delayed : Drop an objet in front of you, advance one step, turn around. If the object disappears, you're being teleported.
Check all the walls, many are fake.

The layout of the dungeon is extremely complex, you'll understand its structure only late in the game, and you'll be lost without proper maps, whether you draw them yourself or get them from cheats.

Post by **linflas** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:02 am

most of maps you get from cheats aren't very useful for people who play the game for the first time. this is better to make you own maps, not based on the levels but on the whole areas you're exploring.

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:10 am

Thank you everyone for your help. After spending all day and all night with this game I think that I understand it a little more. I haven't gotten any further, but that is because I explore, gather some information, map the little I understand and start all over. I was wondering about the Ros, Neta, Ku, Dain? What should I have completed before entering? Which one should I start with? I was thinking I should start with ninja or priest.
Hi Paul- I was happy to hear that you struggled with this game too. I'm not happy that you struggled, I'm happy to know that this game is genuinely hard!
Thank You-
BlueFox

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:45 am

I am happy that I struggled. I enjoyed it. Not every minute of it....but mostly.
It can get very frustrating because things seem so random that you would swear
that the program was buggy. That is what I thought initially.

Go North. To the darts. Find the false walls to the basement. Find
the false walls back to the junction. Then you will have food and water so
that you don't have to start over and lose all that experience.

Post by **Ameena** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:05 pm

Well, you have to do it all eventually, so I suppose it doesn't really matter which one you do, though some are harder than others. This isn't really giving anything away, but just so you know, Ku is Fighter, Ros Ninja, Dain Wizzy, and Neta Priest. Not that that gives you much of an idea of what's down any of the four paths, and they all interlink all over the place anyway. The whole place is one big mess of tunnels, pits (oh, so many pits upon pits), stairs, walk-through walls...if all else fails and you find yourself going totally in circles, just run around bashing into every available square of wall. You may get lucky

.

Post by **linflas** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:19 pm

i wouldn't do Dain first.. quite harder than other paths imho.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:46 pm

i always think neta is the easiest
ku is LOTS of hacking, but apart from that *cough* is easy enough too

dain is probably the hardest just with the need for so much darn magic! and those coatyls! shoo! *fireball fireball fireball*

don't forget the DDD - i htink you need to be driven insane, or tripping, to actually figure that place out properly without some hints/tips/cheating

Post by **Lunever** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:20 pm

What you have is to understand, that after the starting area with run&jump and the supplies for the quick you will eventually, almost inevitably come to the junction of the Ways. There you can choose between 4 pathes: Ku-warrior, Ros-Ninja, Neta-priest, Dain-wizard which offer primarily challenges according to their name. I recommend the order Dain-Neta-Ros-Ku if you don't mind beginning with the difficult dain-puzzles and like not to start with the heavy Ku-equipement. If you would rather have some heavy arms&armour to begin with, just invert the above-mentioned order. If you start on one of the pathes be aware that invisible teleporters transport you to one of 3 possible starting points in each path, so there is a total of 12 locations where you might get after leaving the JoW. In each path you have to find a special key needed later, often this key can be found on the lower levels. All pathes meet on the upper levels Diabolical Demon Director, a really hard puzzle room that offers 4 exits, 1 for each key, separating the pathes again. All pathes lead to the corbum pilar, 1 path to each side of it, where the 4 corbums are. You need to get all 4 corbums and take them to the FulYa pit on the top level past Lord Chaos to solve the game. Hope it will help you to have some overview over the dungeons, I recommend using the maps from the encyclopaedia (see quick links above)! If you need more informations, just ask, but currently I'm on holiday travelling around in UK visiting forum regulars, so I won't reply to often the next 3 weeks. Travelling around I already met with Gambit and Andyboy and will meet Kaspian this friday.

Hey Ameena, haven't seen you for a while in MSN! In case you should be anywhere on my travelling route, interested to go out for a drink with me and my girlfriend?

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:13 pm

I don't go on MSN Messenger much really...usually I'm playing EQ. I duno where you're travelling but I live in Kent and can't really travel out far unless I can convince my friend to drive me and even then she doesn't really like motorways much (only passed her test a couple of months ago but she did drive us to Chessington a couple of weeks back

).

Post by **Lunever** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:53 pm

Hmm, Kent is a county, not a town, isn't it? Where in Kent do you live? We will leave Tintagel on Friday 13th August and return to Brighton, that is, to Gambit once more. After a day in Brighton we will eventually return to Dover and take the ferry.

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:13 am

Thank you everyone for your help.. After yet another all nighter with this game I now feel that I am really ready to enter the Junction. I really enjoyed supplies for the quick. It took a while for me to get all of the items, but that was all my fault. I play this game with all mouse and no keyboard, I slowly figured out that this was never going to work with only a mouse. Thank you beowuuf, I think I will start with the easiest, so I guess neta it is. And thank you Lunever, the overview really did help, at least now I know what the object of the game is, stay safe on your holiday in the UK! I did notice one other thing, I was looking threw the list of items and noticed that I am missing the "no creature" scroll, is that a bad thing??
Thank You-
BlueFox

Post by **linflas** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:23 am

i've never used it because all creatures are described in the hint oracle.

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:07 pm

Thank you linflas, then I will not fret about the missing scroll.
-BlueFox

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:53 pm

Actually, the scroll says "No Creature" only, if there is no creature right before you. If there is a creature before you, the scroll will properly name the creature.

Unfortunately not all versions support it. I think Amiga did, RTC does, dunno whether Atari/Mac/CSBWin do .

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:07 pm

I am playing csbwin, so I guess it does not support it. It doesn't have magic map either, I have been wondering what that does?
Thank You
-BlueFox

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:21 pm

The magic map was only in the Amiga version. It was useful for some puzzles, but tricky to use as you couldn't view the map and move around the dungeon at the same time.

There were four extra spells added to worked with the magic map:

1) Monster radar
2) Active spell radar (You can see a lightning bolt in the shot above)
3) Show illusion pits/walls
4) Hold map

The last one was interesting as it helped map some difficult areas. When you cast the spell, the map is frozen at the current spot. You can then move around the dungeon to another location, and when you view the map it showed where you were before. You could use this to determine the function of switches, etc.

DM2 improved the maps significantly by alowing them to be viewed while moving around, plus a whole bunch of other functions for controlling minions.

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:38 pm

Thanks Gambit for the information, and the visual aid! Magic map sounds like something I could really use in this game. Oh well, I am making my own magic map by hand.
Thank You
-BlueFox

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:30 pm

The screen shot, and therefore the magical map, are available in the other DM clone Return To Chaos

BlueFox · Post by **BlueFox** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:50 pm

Thank you beowuuf! I will play Return To Chaos next time, I'm already thinking of things I would do differently in my next game. I have a couple more questions???
1. I have come across random bones laying on the ground, do these do anything useful? I have the same question about ashes?
2. Does the calista serve any purpose other than a decorative head piece or weak armor?
3. I know that the lockpicks are a random object, will they be easy to find?

Thank You,
BlueFox

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:04 pm

1. No, they are just are there to scare you
Especially if you are in the basement, you should be scared : )
2. Nope, that about sums it up. Its pretty though.
3. They are semi-random - they are carried by a giggler, and there are only eight places the giggler can end up, in some cases it will die on that level, in other cases it will move around. So keep your eye out, kill all gigglers. If you want more specifics later I'm sure someone can tell you the exactly eight locations to look around.

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:27 pm

What doors exactly do the lockpics open, by the way ? never used the things, but ive been told that they work ocasionaly...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:52 pm

yeah, they occasionally work on doors that require a gold or iron key. usually you have to try them multiple times . also, occasionally there can be traps...

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:11 pm

And besides that sometimes the lockpicks can break, right ? or am i mistaking it with EOB ?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:52 pm

you are thinking of eotb

though don't rule that trick out for other custom dungeons....but no, not in DM normally