Harry the Nazi?

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:55 am

Ok here we are and registered.
Serious discussions are great with intelligent people, so many boards seem to be inundated with people who derail very good threads, example on some boards this sort of subject would have been hijacked by bigoted fools who spout racism or whatever.
It's refreshing to be able to have a debate, have a bit of fun and talk about interesting stuff.

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:55 am

People dare not say their views at the risk of sounding racist. There is much hypocrisy in this and other countries. I always wondered what would happen if a bunch of Christians visited a Muslim country, built huge churches in the middle of the largest cities and walked the streets wearing large crosses round their necks and wore dog collars. Personally I find the ethnicity and various faiths in this country fascinating, and the new cultures that have arisen.

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:59 am

Problem is though PaulH that the ethnic minorities can't seem to win with some people.
Example people say Muslims and such like don't make any attempt to fit in to our culture, but when some choose to observe Christmas and Easter they get slated for it by some small minded people.
Ok so its not their religion but what percentage of people who celebrate Christmas actually do it via nativity in a Church?
The fact some embrace our culture is a positive step it's just a shame some people won't accept it.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:01 am

Welcome Dave The Miller. You are most wholesome and fair.

Yes, we are a good bunch here. We like it. It's cozy and warm. Pull up a chair, come sit by the fire with your tankard of frothing ale and tell us your stories of adventure. We love new friends. We don't like fools, and though we rarely get them here, if it happens they are dealt with swiftly. There's simply no room left under my patio....

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:09 am

Thank you Gambit, it is a pleasure to be here.

My mate Halk the Barbarian builder could do you a patio extension at a knock down rate

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:09 am

Does the term 'British culture and society' need to be redefined?

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:11 am

Yes. We don't currently have one, so defining one would be a good start. At least then we have something to aim for.

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:12 am

I think Britain needs to be redifined all together. I don't think many people still refer to themselves as british but thats another issue.

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:13 am

How about 'English', 'Scottish', 'Irish' and 'Welsh' cultures then? Surely they have some definition?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:13 am

*loos under a rock* i had a post somewhere around here...mentioning british culture or the lack of it that i have ever seen *checks under patio too*

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:26 am

Jack Straw has stated that Great Britain is now a proud multi cultured society and the influx of immigration has made Britain a more interesting place.
Oddly enough i read that on a BNP flier that got shoved through my door and I perused it to see what they were spouting now.
They quoted Straw then ranted about the government has an agenda or some rubbish.

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:35 am

Britain IS an interesting place. But I get the feeling, apart from the few vile racist pigs that exist and make our lives a misery, that ethnicity does more to segregate itself.

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:39 am

Oh I agree. I think there is a huge problem with the fact we all assume too much about one another and take very little time to actually truly understand the way each of us work.
But while ever us white people are let down by the minority of racist bigots, the ethnic communities are let down by state scroungers who come here for the handouts.
The bad minorities on each side seem to reflect the whole group and until that is phased out we can never live in any kind of harmony.
I blame the gutter press, they'd have nothing to write about if everyone was friends so they fuel things

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:53 am

I think Media is both out best friend and our worst enemy. Media on a good day can warn us of dangers to us and our loved ones.. or share with the rest of the world the plight of a group helping bring people to want to help and support them in their time of needs. However it can also dig up the worst of our past, and present and incite violence and anger.... animosity to large groups of people. Spread lies and make a horrid mess of things too.

if we were to wake up one day without our memories.. no ability to speak.. or to remember our pasts.. how would we evolve? with only our instincts to guide us..

With people of all colours on all continents.. no one would raise us with ideals of this group of people is this way.. and that groups did this many years ago.. etc

I think we can be our own worst enemies and in many cases things like racism and prejudice is self perpetuating. Those who feel they will receive it .. expect it.. and so are more likley to see it in anything someone does.. and those who do, do it are taught from a young age it's acceptable.. and know nothing else

Many who feel they might be seen as such sit and worry and spend so much time trying so hard to not appear as though they might be that they end up looking or acting dumb... and potentially doing more harm than good.

I'm white.. did I own slaves? no.. did my great grandparents?... no... were any of my ancestors slaves?... yes... do I condemn those who did it? Meh.. before my time.. do I condemn their offspring? hell no.

many of those who have bought into the ideal that many white people are racist have in themselves become racist themselves. Do I understand what it is to be looked at and hated because of the colour of my skin? you damn well bet!. have I been excluded from things because of my colour? You bet ya.. several jobs.. was anyone ever called to task about this? no.. it's not politticaly correct to accuse someone NON-white or racism. This is incredibly sad and exactly a perfect example of how we can go too far in "making amends"

Because we become too steeped in the past and the problems of that time.. because we keep digging up old bones and throwing them around.. we perpetuate the attitudes and animocity and make it more difficult to get on with out lives..

SURE.. it happend... SURE.. it was horrible... teach it in history if we must... but let's leave it there. Move on for *@#$ sakes..

in my experience.. humans are humans.. each have their own ideals and everyone learns those at an early age.. we are what we learn. So to me that makes us all the same.. when will we all learn that..

(I do think many of you have... so no worries.. I'm just venting along with you )

moo

Selie · Post by **Selie** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:38 am

About the Prince Harry thing, I think people care too much about what celebrities do. I've also never heard "fancy dress" as a synonym for "costume." I think that's really funny. You guys have the strangest slang sometimes. It's such a British-sounding phrase, but it confused me for a while ("Why is Prince Harry wearing a nazi uniform to a formal occasion?") until I caught on.

I could probably have something else to say here, but I can't think of it. I actually wrote a huge long reply and opted not to put it.

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:13 am

Sorry, I skipped the rest of the convo because I'm eager to address sucinum's argument.

You may have misunderstood me. I wasn't implying that Germans are Nazi's anymore than I was implying Americans are humanist-naturalists. (Read the SUV thread.) I used to use phrases like "he's a rules nazi" regarding IRC ops who kicked people because they talk slightly off-topic, or some other such nonsensical malignancy. (IRC is the heart of virtual despotism.) I stopped doing this when I realized the term "Nazi" doesn't mean "someone who kills anyone who doesn't follow the same rules/have the same color skin/believe in the same god." It means "Nationalist Socialist," a political ideal against which I have zero arguments. (I'm not a socialist, but I like some of its principles.) I've known one German woman in particular, an exchange student, who was particularly endearing.

The heart of the problem is that Americans believe anything BUT capitalism is evil. Socialism is evil. Communism is evil. Eudaemonism is evil. For this reason, schools don't distinguish between the Third Reich regime and the Nazi party. I suffered from the same problem until I grew up. This is the drawback of general education. (I am an immortal advocate of personalized education. This was the subject of my college term paper last year.) It really doesn't have anything to do with media, because media doesn't teach anything about WWII or the holocaust anymore. That's left to history books.

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:22 pm

selie - you should just post!

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm

>>I used to use phrases like "he's a rules nazi" regarding IRC ops who kicked people because they talk slightly off-topic, or some other such nonsensical malignancy.

i could have used this phrase by myself in this context (and i know ops like this...). nazi has became the term for arch-evil which is ok in my eyes, even if it's not 100% fitting. i just don't like it to be connected with today's germany, but this happens too often, like in online-games. i know it's mostly kids using that as a general insult for germans, but they wouldn't, if they hadn't learned it this way.

Selie · Post by **Selie** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:02 pm

Again, if it makes you feel any better, American kids sometimes think the Russians are/were Nazis too, or that the Nazis were communists (this is more common) and therefore in league with the Russians, who were also communists and may still be (for all the children know). There are a lot of ill-informed American children surfing the internet. They're hardly history experts.

I read this really funny book once - two men (I think) went around Britain recording people's misperceptions about British humor. An American equivalent would move from funny to sad.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:13 pm

There is a section on a canadian vcomedy show (this hour has 22 minutes) where Roy Merser went around america asking various questions to americans about canada
Of course he would take the best comments, so it wasnt' representative, but there were still some scary answers of questions

One was an answer from a harvard professor in some associated studies to the quetsion, and the then governor bush on if he would be be speaking to the canadian president Jean Putin (putin being a canadian chips and gravy thing, and canada havign a prime minister). Thingsl iek that.
I owuld hate to see a british version of scotsm welsh, irish and english being asked abotu weird regional thigns though!

Selie · Post by **Selie** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:21 pm

I think there's some American show that has a similar feature - some talk show or something. One of their correspondants goes around asking Americans questions about America. It's funny. And sad.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:28 pm

It's true that far more Canadians are aware of things going on in the states than people in the states knowing about what goes on in canada. Which is a shame.. we really are right next door. Which is why Canadians pay attention. Point of fact.. our lives are very connected. we very much depend on eachother for a lot of different things.

I find it rather dissapointing when some americans have come to canada for the first time and had in their mind a picture of the northest territories... wide open snow covered plains.. igloos and dogsleds.. ugh.. That's not all of them though.. many who make an educated descision to come visit.. who may know people out here.. I think with the internet it will make those sorts of things go away. I think right now those most aware of canadians are those closest to the boarders. They know it's not a red line and then suddenly a blizzard on the otherside.

What I did find funny was a lot of American teenagers who live near the boarder would cross it and spend the day in one of the many camping grounds nearby and drink.. Just because of the age difference in the drinking laws.

Also, I was once on parade in the states.. with the Sea cadets. We were the tolken canadians.. and when we were announced to the croud... they went wild. Hooting and cheering.. it was weird. For many of us we were nervous because we thought that they wouldn't like us.. but we were like some kind of big deal... changed a lot of our views at that time. (ahh.. knowledge)

moo

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:41 pm

yes, the thing i realised about canada...bloody cold in the winter, bloody warm in the summer...like lots of america too i suppose : )

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:56 pm

I live in Texas, so it's a dice roll what the weather is going to be like. You'll leave on a warm morning in a t-shirt and by the end of the day, it might start hailing. Yay, Texas.

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:01 pm

Sounds a lot like Yorkshire. My Welsh mate had to be rescued from a hill after setting off on a walk one sunny morning and a few hours later blizzards had dropped feet of snow. never trust the Yorkshire moors!

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:46 pm

Do you still have to show your passport to get into Yorkshire?

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:49 pm

Depends what time of year it is. If you are wearing a flat cloth cap and have a large fast dog you have no problems with entry.

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:51 pm

Large fast dog eh?

Better take the wife along.

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:52 pm

Grantham has that problem.

DaveTheMiller · Post by **DaveTheMiller** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:05 am

True but she was born in Yorkshire and emigrated here to Lincs.