Cool stuff you've found on the web

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:27 am

Depends what they're being trained for and why. Teaching a guide dog to guide or a sheepdog to herd sheep is making use of their natural instincts and behaviour, giving them mental stimulation and rewards for helping us. In that kind of situation, they do it because they WANT to - they are being rewarded for doing something they like doing anyway.
On the other hand, the "training" of (for example) circus animals like dancing bears and elephants and stuff is cruel, since they whip them and poke them and generally do horrible things to them in order to force them into unnatural behaviours for amusement and entertainment, when they are wild creatures anyway and haven't been domesticated over the past several thousand years or so.
Of course, there is the more basic principle of "should we have pets at all?"...but many species (cats, dogs...) have been tamed and domesticated over the centuries/millennia, that they have lost enough of their natural instincts to be dependent on humans to a certain extent. Dogs more than cats because of their pack instinct.
Hmm are we gonna end up in a big debate here lol...it's the kind of subject that usually leads to one...

Post by **PaulH** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:30 am

As much as I love arguing with you, I agree!

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:52 am

Oh good...I hate arguing, it just gets me all pissed off

.

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:08 am

Paul: The relationship is quite human in the sense that a dog makes a company, constitute some kind person with some rights, works with its master on the mode of partnership, gives services in exchange of a "pay", etc.
I agree to Ameena. Since you agree with her too, we all agree. We're boring persons.

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:11 am

Just a little reference back to that parrot clip...clearly the parrot wasn't distressed by the situation or he wouldn't have performed so. Birds stress easily and if he hadn't been enjoying his training and showing off he wouldn't be so healthy (or even alive, perhaps). Bear in mind how intelligent birds like African Greys are - they need a hell of a lot of stimulation to heep their minds active, much like Border Collies, the most intelligent breed of dog (only more so since no dog has the vocal capacity to mimic human speech, phones, cats, pigeons...).
A cute story of a trained bird having fun - http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww15e.htm

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:01 am

If this is the case, then I have to soften my judgment on this specific case. Hower the tamer is always gesturing her right hand to the parrot, promising sugar, which she rewards the parrot with at the end... If the parrot would have fun it wouldn't need a reward, I guess. But ok, it could be some sort of contract between both, an agreement.
Also, the parrot is slightly distressed, since it fumbles when saying its name... but maybe it's not due to the tamer...

Alright, let's stop turning around the bush and get to the point: I'm not reproching any kind of cruelty to this animal. I'm reproching the denaturing of its essence and wildness. This is a lack of respect, a privation of liberty.

I may sound naive with these words.
There are no essence and no liberty, I know. But we live with these illusions, without which there would be no aesthetics. So what I pretend is that a world with broadcasted tamed parrots inside a taming society is uglier than a world broadcasting wildlife and respecting it.

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:17 pm

I do see what you mean...parrots are taken from the wild, brought into human homes, and kept in cages. However, a good parrot keeper knows that the parrot needs to keep contact, due to the flocking instinct, and teaching them to mimic various sounds and noises is no different from taking advantage of a border collie's ability to herd things. It's just taking that ability and using it to the human's advantage (or in the case of parrots, amnusement and communication). One thing I don't really agree with is wing clipping, since this removes one of the bird's main natural abilities and methods of escape from predators. African greys spend a lot of time foraging on the forest floor for food, so the ability to fly is even more important. Pet greys' wings are clipped to prevent them harming themselves by trying to fly inside a house (the feathers clipped are those that help with uplift so they can still kind of flutter to the ground and the feathers do regrow over time - no permanent damage to the wing), and also to teach them that they have to ask the humans for stuff, like to be lifted onto their perch or whatever. I can't say I agree with this very much...still, it'd be pretty much impossible to stop these creatures from being taken and kept as pets, so when they are, it's better they en dup with humans who have the knowledge to treat them right and who care about them enough to do so.

Post by **PaulH** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:30 pm

I wish I could train my dog properly, she is the most stubborn creature I have ever encountered! (including Golems). But wave food in front of her nose and she'll turn somersaults. I guess her instinct for food is driven from her past as she was a rescued dog.

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:38 pm

Some dogs respond to treats/food, others prefer praise, some may prefer a favourite toy. Use whatever works best and train her slowly, for short periods or time each day (otherwise she may get bored and frustrated). If you give a hefty amount of praise at the same time as the treat, then over time give less treats, hopefully she'll come to prefer the praise more...you don't want her getting too fat now do you! Oh, and train when she's hungry so she'll want it more - if she's just eaten you'll probably have less luck. And never phase out treats completely - give them at random intervals since she'll be more likely to do what you want if she MIGHT get a treat this time...or maybe next time...

Post by **PaulH** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:43 pm

Well, she is getting old, and is on steroids for a skin condition so is fat already! She will respond when she feels like it - quite a character!

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:46 pm

Ameena wrote:And never phase out treats completely - give them at random intervals

You're gonna be an excellent dungeon designer! I never dare myself into such thoughts...

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:59 am

http://www.izpitera.ru/lj/tetka.swf

Friend sent me this.. kind of neat.. also a bit creepy.

moo

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:03 am

Hehe that's cool...I'd refreshed it a few times before I realised to can click and dragn to move her when she gets stuck. I was watching it for a while...it's just one of those things you end up staring at for ages...

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:42 am

another great radio on the net : www.hhuk.net

HARD techno, HARD dance, HARD trance, HARD house will BLOW UP YOUR BRAIN !!!
death on afterparty

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:00 pm

Uh, OK. Calm down dear.

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:57 pm

Its only a commercial...

I take it you aren't a fan of classical music Adamo?!

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:28 pm

you mean radio is commercial, that you have to pay for listening, or a music itself is in "commercial" type? I listen to this all day round without paying a cent, by winamp. For every 10 hours it kicks me out and I connect again

I wouldn`t do that much I did in last days in CSBeditor or ADGE without a good music, that gives you a real kick to make a work

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:30 pm

Hehe, it a reply to Gambit, a quote from an annoying English TV ad!

"Calm down dear, its only a commercial"

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:35 pm

so now you know, how I am making my customs: hard trance + box of Red Bulls + CSBeditor

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:45 pm

Possibly a good way to play certain dungeons too

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:30 pm

I find a touch of vodka in the redbull is good addition.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:48 pm

And then dropping the vodka/red bull into a beer? Or is that one step too far? : )

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:50 pm

Oh no, at that stage I have removed the RedBull...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:58 pm

The coolest thing I have found on the web might be PaulH's new avatar.

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:06 pm

Gotta be careful when cutting the hair, don't want to chop an antennae off!

Post by **Ameena** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:38 pm

Rofl omg my crappy snail pic!!

Post by **PaulH** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:29 pm

hehe, I gave him some hair and stuck him in a field!

Post by **Ameena** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:49 pm

You also gave him an arse...

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:31 am

I find a touch of vodka in the redbull is good addition.

maybe sometimes, but definitely not for designing DM levels

Post by **Ameena** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:42 am

http://www.chezmaya.com/applet/valentin.htm
Similar to that thing Cows linked the other day...