CSBwin monsters and objects limitations

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:19 pm

anyone knows, what is the total sum of monsters, objects, OR (monsters+objects) limit in CSBwin? I`m using CSBuild and I`m afraid not to put too much active monsters (by active I mean not-made by generator) or too many objects (objects on the floor, wall ornates, doors, pushbuttons etc etc.), not to cause troubles in CSB.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:23 pm

Zyx has not hit the object limit yet. That should let you be unafraid for the object limit of your dungeon.

Really the database was been expanded to something ridiculously large like 32000 each or some such multiple that won't be reached by anyone...you know, for a few months...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:25 pm

About 8000 of each type.
monsters
scrolls
potions
weapons
texts
clothes
misc (keys, apples, etc)
actuators
teleporters

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:29 pm

Is that all? Lol, I thought it was much more. I'm not saying anyone would need more, just...I thought there was more...

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:39 pm

would these 8000 active monsters at one time slow the game? (wouldn`t it be any inharitance for CPU?)

Zyx has not hit the object limit yet. That should let you be unafraid for the object limit of your dungeon.

I`m asking theoreticly, if I would put 30 or so monster generator on each level producing monsters very fast (by using a pads pressed by monsters, for example)... we could... easy reach the limit

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:45 pm

Depends where they are - but the whole dungeon doesn't move in CSBwin (unlike RTC where the whole dungeon is active) so really you will have about 2 times the level area in monsters at most being tracked.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:53 pm

You edited your post, or I didn't see the last bit - theoretically you could do that, but you would only have 60 generators flooding at any one time. Plus the level area means the monster population would stay static at the floor area of each level and not keep going.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:04 pm

in CSBwin 71536 tiles is the max reachable value. (32x32x64). But you`re right - the timers for monsters on the level, that we`re actually on, are different than for the monsters in other levels.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:24 pm

but the whole dungeon doesn't move in CSBwin

Who says? Not I. I have always claimed that the monsters
move on all the levels.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:25 pm

71536 tiles is the max reachable value. (32x32x64)

You better get that calculator repaired.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:59 pm

I tried stuff out, and got weird results, and will say no more and let Paul state something definitive about the situation I guess!

It does seem, however, that all monsters move but generators themselves wouldn't keep triggering and flooding...or something...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:26 pm

What makes you think generators stop?

beowuuf has pointed out that there is a limit of
about 260 monsters on the party's level. I think the
original Atari code had a much smaller limit.

I can try to make the limit bigger. I will try to make
it be 1025 (one more than the number of cells in the
largest possible level). But the key words here: 'WILL TRY'.
My first attempt failed.

And I also received a 'quick log.zip' that causes a crash when
left sitting for an hour or so. Gotta look into that.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:39 pm

Hmm, why would the middle three generators not keep pumping out gigglers aswell, why just the bottom level?

And a crash with the conflux game..ouch. When I originally played with it I didn't have problems with it...and that saved game is from a long game : (

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:06 am

crash with the conflux game..ouch

Ran out of timer entries. It usually tries to increase
the maximum. But two were needed simultaneously and
it only checked that one was available. Looks like an
easy fix. Just for the curious....it broke at 1122 timers.

would the middle three generators not keep pumping out gigglers aswell

What makes you think they did not?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:11 am

and that saved game is from a long game

Only 194,000 moves? You still have a way to go.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:23 am

Huh, maybe it wasn't from a long game then...

Umm, as for the generator, when I viewed the saved game then the three middle levels never generated more gigglers, while the first and last did.
Edit: Just checked the pressure pads - all three, for some reason, had 'once only' selected - I have no idea why! Sorry about that. All of the generators work at a much reduced rate on the other levels, and the game produces a much more spectacular 'illegal index' crash.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:53 am

The illegal index is due to the engine not expecting
such a large percentage of the cells being occupied.
The original code looked at how many cells are
occupied and then added 300. But it never checked
to see if there was an overflow. Your generators caused
more than 300 additional cells to be occupied.

I am going to try to expand the structre dynamically.
Probably cause some temporary additional problems.
That is the way.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:26 am

[off topic]:
I noticed, that sometimes (but rather very rarely: I`m testing my custom, that is allready in progress: I test it very very very hardly again again and again...etc... and this situation happened maybe 5 times - so its really rarely, comparing to the total testing time), when I kill spider (I dont knof if this due to other big monsters), and immediatelly go to its "smoke", wchich appears for the moment after its death, the game crushes (stops working), and then turns off. Anyway, that text apears (to send it as an error):

"AppName: csbwin.exe
AppVer: 1.0.0.1
ModName: csbwin.exe
ModVer: 1.0.0.1
Offset: 0003eef3"

I don`t know if there`s a bug, or if it`s just my computer or system.
I use CSB win v9.8 v 55
CSbuild v 2.06
on windows XP pro, PII, 300 MHz, 96 Mb ram

maybe it`s just my **** windows, then sorry for bothering you, if it`s not a bug.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:53 am

Not very likely to be your machine or operating
system. Most likely CSBwin. You have a very old
version.

Go get CSBwin98v59 from
http:/dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin

All of these versions are more-or-less beta
releases but the more recent ones are (generally) better.
A LOT of changes have been taking place. It should not
crash. Let me know if it does.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:58 am

ok, got it (v.59). Where can I find your release notes about newest versions CSBwin and CSbuild? (sorry, that I`m inqusitive person, but I`m interested in changes )

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:34 pm

The latest posts on this forum really, especially if they are started by by Zyx! You can also check out the date of each file on Paul's webspace - watch out as sometimes pakcs (like customdemo) have later versions of the programme than the stand alone files. I think it is safe to assume that each time you come abck to the forum, CSBwin will have been altered!

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:43 pm

Where can I find your release notes about newest versions

In the top right pocket of my overalls.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:47 pm

game produces a much more spectacular 'illegal index' crash.

CSBwin98v60

works better. It allows 1024 monstersm per level.
It dynamically expands the number of cells that can
be occupied. Now it runs your generator test until
the hero dies of starvation. It also ran your 'quick log'
(194000 move) game till all four heros starved.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:03 pm

I find hero starvaton a cruel and unusual way to measure long instances of time!

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:11 pm

Paul Stevens Said:

About 8000 of each type, monsters, scrolls, potions, weapons ,texts ,clothes ,misc (keys, apples, etc), actuators, teleporters.

could you add to CSbuild a counter of using in-game actuators onto "search" option? I know it is possible to list them / show their location on the screen, but counting them would sometimes last years ! (I have allready about 1500 - 2000 actuators, so I cant count them myself).
I mean: showing a number of things listed in "search" option each time.

Post by **Zyx** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:08 pm

Try View->ObjectCounts.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:30 pm

counter of using in-game actuators onto "search" option?

I will add a counter to the 'Advanced Search' dialog to
show the number of items listed. But the "View/Object Counts"
should be sufficient for your purpose temporarily.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:42 pm

in "Object count" \ view option in CSBuild there`s a list of object used in the game:
0. doors, 1. teleporters, 2. texts, 3. actuators, 4. monsters, 5. weapons, 6. clothes, 7. scrolls, 8. potions, 9. chests, 10. food&miscs, 11-13 signed as "not used", 14. missiles, 15. clouds.

I have 2 things in object "11- Not Used", signed as used & allocated like this: ("Not Used": used: 2, allocated:2) What does it means? What is this option for?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:07 pm

I gobbled up database number 11 to use as a
content addressable database. This makes it
easy to add new parameters to the game. Such
things as Filter Locations and default Skin Numbers
are kept there.

The counts are meaningless. That is the count of
the number of 'segments' but each segment can hold
zero to 64 ( I think ) data records.

Databases 12 and 13 are, indeed, unused.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:50 pm

Paul Stevens wrote:

CSBwin98v60 works better. It allows 1024 monsters per level.

While I was testing my custom, on start level (zero) everything seemed to be ok. But when I went to level one, I recieved the message:

Too many monstres.
The Atari code did bad thing at this point. I am going to increase the maximum. If you dont like this, close the program before saving the game.

However, when I pressed "ok", I could play the game and everything seemed to be ok. But then why did you wrote a warning saying not to save a game after that "bad thing" that Atari did? What does it means? I checked out and there is 287 monsters used in my game now (300 allocated). On that level, where problem appeared, there is about 100 monsters and 12 generators. What is the total number of possible monsters in the game (in level)? I though it`s about 8000 per whole game (and 1024 per level).
I use CSbuild 2.17, CSBwin 9.8v75 (the latest one, I think). Are there any in-game influences/effects of game (big inharitance for cpu, possible game crush, etc) after that message? If not, then why this message appears? Should I worry about it?
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