enhanced import (the "to be continued" feature)

[linflas]

Hi
I got ideas this summer (it sometimes happens ) :
- making the sequel of a dungeon made by someone else, keeping his characters and objects
- making a long adventure in several episodes (did ya get the hidden key that will open the door at the beginning of this new episode ?)
- several RTC files made by different people with connections between stories.

For all of these features, I was thinking of a new [Import] statement, here's an example with 3 importing locations :
[Import]
IMPORT_SCARY FROM=(MY SCARY DUNGEON) TO=(1,23,4,SOUTH) KEEP_INVENTORY=(TRUE)
IMPORT_DOOM FROM=(MY TEMPLE OF DOOM) TO=(13,4,2,EAST) KEEP_INVENTORY=(TRUE)
IMPORT_PRISON FROM=(MY DUNGEON ENDING WITH A NICE TRAP WHERE YOU LOSE EVERYTHING) TO=(5,35,9,NORTH) KEEP_INVENTORY=(FALSE)

Of course, objects that weren't designed for the new dungeon wouldn't appear in inventory...

So what do you think ?

[Gambit37]

Whooa. A great idea, but I think it would be very difficult to manage.

What happens if the player doesn't have any of these dungeons? If they have all of them, in your eample, which one takes precedence? How do you decide which items from an earlier dungeon are available in a later one? How do you ensure that designers of later dungeons know what was available in the first one (unless they play it, they won't know anything special about it).

One of the things that people seem to enjoy about creating dungeons is being in control of everything -- the design, story, layout, new items, monsters etc. I think it would be very hard to make collaborative, connected dungeons unless everyone involved is really open to the idea that others might mess their work up or change it in a way that wasn't intended.

I would be impressed if a group of you manage something like that.

[beowuuf]

I believe letting it port between different people's dungeons wouldn't work, and even worse prejudice - I won't play that dungeon, it doens't support my favourite charatcers, or I won't play that dungeon, as I will lose my favourite sword.

But the ability to port with full gear between your own set of dungeons would be interesting - that way the ocntrol is still there - you still know what types of people and items will be coming in, sicne thye will only be yours, and people will onyl get attached to your characters through your set of dungeons, not through external ones

[linflas]

What happens if the player doesn't have any of these dungeons?

IMPORT_TO variable still stays in [Main Data] statement for the default import location.

If they have all of them, in your eample, which one takes precedence?

i believe that precedence depends on story. a possible scenario for my example could be : you start your adventure in the main world, enter the scary dungeon to find some special key and then go back to main. later, you get another key to enter the 'trap' dungeon, that ends with a nice 'you have been captured' : you get back to the main world, in a prison from where you try to escape... finally, you go to the temple of doom to kill the evil lord, or whatever !

I think it would be very hard to make collaborative, connected dungeons unless everyone involved is really open to the idea that others might mess their work up or change it in a way that wasn't intended.

definitely, but that's better than working on a single file. i mean everyone makes an area, then we discuss on the possible connections. i believe there must be a main designer or it will be a total anarchy.

I would be impressed if a group of you manage something like that.

if George implements this, i will try this with people who are interested (you ? )

[Ameena]

If it was a bunch of people all working together to produce different areas of the same dungeon, I'd be up for that...even if I couldn't come up with any ideas for specific puzzles or traps, I can be your Wordweaver .

[Gambit37]

if George implements this, i will try this with people who are interested (you ? )

Nope, sorry, too many other things on the go... DM Codex for one!

[JCG]

Actually, I think that creating a dungeon from collaborative work would be great, and very feasible. We are many with ideas for puzzles, bits of scenario, new monsters.... but not enough time (unfortunately it's my case) to develop our ideas and build a complete playable dungeon.
Linflas and Gambit are totally right : if such a project is started, a main designer ( that's called a Project Manager) is mandatory, and it's not an easy task. Also, all contributors would have to accept that their ideas could be modified, transformed, and even rejected to build a coherent, playable and enjoyable dungeon.
Technically, I don't think that a complete import feature in RTC is really necessary for a collaborative project, as it would represent a large amount of work for George to develop it. However a simpler, offline tool to only translate ( in the 3 directions ),rotate a dungeon and impose an offset on item numbers would be great for the project manager, because after that, it's mostly copy/paste.

[Chaos Awakes]

I think the idea of keeping certain objects between dungeons is good, doesn't CSB keep some imported items from imported characters from DM - I believe I read somewhere that it did.

As to which items are imported and which are not - easy! Just have a predetermined square in the dungeon file (say, level 0, square 0,0) where the designer puts items. Any items on this square that match those in the characters inventory being imported are imported.

[zoom]

I think the main problem is that the party gets too tough or doesn´t meet the requirements
at the end of a dungeon(levels and or items). This is really hard to balance.

Maybe there should be categories of dungeons :
cat.I , cat.II and cat.III
in increasing difficulty settings.

Maybe an item restriction and level restriction
(cat.I: melee weapons at most and expert/adept levels as maximum or sth.)
(cat. II : better weapons but no beserk and no vorpals, level minimum artisan
and highest being master [on master/ um master, depending on class])

THis way it could be possible to import characters from a category one (cat.I) to a category II dungeon.
You just keep the items that are at the lower scale of cat II dungeon´s itemlist,
or do not get powerful items in a cat I dungeon in the first place.

It would restrict the dungeon builders rather much, but if there is a diamond edge to be found or stone golems
strolling around, in an at first very easy dungeon, then the dungeon is, frankly, cat.III.

[George Gilbert]

For me, the real issue isn't with the powerfulness of weapons etc (that's a problem for the dungeon designers, not me!). The issue is with their graphics.

If one dungeon contains an item with custom graphics, and that item is imported into a new dungeon, then the new dungeon will require the graphics from the old one. It just makes everything a bit messy to handle!

[Guest]

dragging this back from the dead... would it be cool to have as an option for use as a personal thing (rather than this colaboration thing which is cool but sounds really wakward to implement and has been said no too. )

I mean a no is ok by me, its your project afterall (and a damn good one..)

P.S>My friend who used to play DM stubled accross this and was most disapointed with not being able to play it on linux till i said that it was a closed source personal project that got popular..

As a programmer himself he understood (especially when i told him u were using windoes libraries)

I let him play it at mine and he thinks youve done a damn good job of this (just some more kudos for you from someone not on these boards )

[Da_Ruby]

^^tht was me 4 spme reason my comp keeps logging me out of plaxes