Dragon Plate on "Supplies for the quick"

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:13 am

Ok. I started CSB with one character. After some wandering on lower (?)levels, I came back to "Supplies for the quick"-place.

There seemed to be some new stuff. For example some type of armor. I already had Plate-series armors and thought that there cannot be any better armor stuff in the alcove. But I grabbed this stuff and it appeared to be Dragon Plate. This is supposed to be good? After some fighting it seemed to be very good.

Ok, it seems that some random stuff will appear on those "Supplies for the quick"-alcoves. Hardest enemies I killed before I got it were 2, hm, enemies that dropped 2 swords and some plate armour. I also didn't killed any Dragons before I got this Dragon Plate.

Did I do something very awesome or was this just good luck?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:41 am

Dragon plate is the heaviest and best

The random item placement of CSB only happens after you go to the Junction of the Ways - so as you found, some items appear in the supplies for the quick alcove. The dragon and RA armours are randomly palced, as are a few other things (inlcuding gigglers with nice items)

Sera · Post by **Sera** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:41 am

ah, the wonderful dragon plate, ill start off by saying this, no, you havent done anything to trigger this, but theres an inaccessable room full of gigglers that carry these random items and armors, the go into a teleport in that room, theyll get teleported to an alcove square and die, since no one can survive in stone of course :P, its just a matter of luck getting it in such easy places, one time i got 3 pieces of dragon armor in one alcove, from one of the gold key doors, which was good, but ya, its all randomness, you restart another game and youll find itll be somewhere else, unless youre lucky enough to have the giggler teleport to the same place

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:47 am

Actually, creatures survive fine teleported into a wall - they just die if the level doesn't support them : )

Sera · Post by **Sera** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:53 am

survive until you end up killing them ,but its odd though, some gigglers, when carrying stuff like this, tend to have high defense, and harder to kill

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:09 am

I see. Quite nice that there are this type of "lottery" where you can get very good stuff.

Quite stupid though that you have the best body armor but your best melee weapon is Storm that you found on first room. It seemed to be better than Sword, Rapier, Biter or Falchion but compared to DM's Diamond Edge and stuff, it s***s.

But well, there was no problems to kill dragon with that Storm-sword. Level seemed to be quite low ( Lowest? ). I didn't find any stairs down or any fall pits like on other levels.

If there is more to ask, I put questions to this thread. I'll check spoilers and stuff after / if I complete this game.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:23 am

The Rapier should definitely be a better weapon than Storm, as Thrust deals more damage than Chop, and the attack speed of Jab is very high. There are even better weapons to be found, though. I suppose the dragon you killed is Mongor, at the lowest level of the KU way. If that is the case, did it have a full set of armor with it? Be sure not to overlook any grey keys on the floor...

Good luck with the game, and feel free to ask any questions that come up! I actually envy you for the experience of playing this game for the first time, I wish I could do that again.

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:30 am

Trantor wrote:The Rapier should definitely be a better weapon than Storm, as Thrust deals more damage than Chop, and the attack speed of Jab is very high. There are even better weapons to be found, though. I suppose the dragon you killed is Mongor, at the lowest level of the KU way. If that is the case, did it have a full set of armor with it? Be sure not to overlook any grey keys on the floor...

Rapier is good, but I still prefer Chop, because Jab does too little damage per strike and Thrust is way too slow. Chop is kinda "average" and just good for now.

Oh yeah, those grey keys are quite hard to spot. Dragon gave Solid key and some armor stuff.

Hint Oracle said something about Mongor or like that. So I think that was Mongor.

That Hint Oracle is very useful, but it sometimes helps too much. But at that Junction Of Th Ways I really didn't have any clue what meaned Ku other words like that. There Hint Oracle gave just enough info. I chose Ku-path because 1. Master Wizard level is not quite much for any spelling party.

When playing one character game of course.

Good luck with the game, and feel free to ask any questions that come up! I actually envy you for the experience of playing this game for the first time, I wish I could do that again.

Heh, I tried this game on Amiga last century but after 3 minutes I got beaten by Dragon. That S****d.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:37 am

Good that you found the Solid Key! I remember someone being completely stuck in the game for mere overlooking that key. Yes, Mongor was indeed that dragon. KU is probably the most exhausting of the four ways, but a good start nevertheless, as you will get nice equipment and experience there.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:48 am

I think the random object gigglers are tougher than normal ones

I think Mongor is actually the dragon under the DDD...would have to recheck...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:51 am

No he isn't Beo, Mongor is definitely the one on Level 10. The one below the DDD does not have any name, the Hint Oracle only refers to it as being well-nurtured or something, meaning that it is tougher than the other dragons on Level 4. I always liked how Mon Gor actually means "strongest poison" or something in the DM language.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:55 am

I always got them mixed up, if he's called Mongor in the hint oracle then cool

Gor is aggresion and battle I believe

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:57 am

I'll check Hint Oracle If I still have proper Save Game.

Hint Oracle says it is/was Mongor.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:05 am

beowuuf wrote: Gor is aggresion and battle I believe

Really? I always thought that Gor is the syllable meaning "poison"...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:00 am

Funnily, 'Ven' means poison : )

Post by **Ameena** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:46 am

Firstly, welcome to the terrors and confusion of CSB

. You said you didn't understand the meaning of terms such as "Ku"...well allow me to explain - in the spell window there are four sets of six runes. The last set of these is Ku, Ros, Dain, Neta, Ra, and Sar.
Ku is obviously the shape of a sword. It represents Fighters.
Ros is a hand reaching into a pocket or something, it's Ninjas anyway.
Dain is an arm holding a wand casting a spell - Wizzies.
And Neta is another obvious one - a cross, thereby representing Priests.
And the last two runes are Ra (good) and Sar (evil) but there isn't a Ra way and a Sar way. Anyway, these descriptions of the first four runes should give you a bit of a hint of the kind of things that may be expected in each of the four ways. But don't get too comfortable - they all link into each other here and there, and getting lost is probably something every CSB player is very good at, no matter how much they've played it

. Well except those smart arses who can win the thing in nine minutes...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:50 am

beowuuf wrote:Funnily, 'Ven' means poison : )

How could I forget that? *slaps himself* I took a look at the manual, it says that Gor is the counterpart to Bro, representing fire, lightning and a spear - hostility in general. It is also used in mixing dangerous poisons, so that must be how I confused it... But yeah, now the name "Mongor" makes a lot more sense to me, thanks Beo.

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:40 pm

Gor is used in mixing dangerous potions not poisons.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:41 pm

Right Gambit. I guess I should finally learn how to read properly...

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:31 pm

Ameena wrote:Firstly, welcome to the terrors and confusion of CSB :). You said you didn't understand the meaning of terms such as "Ku"...well allow me to explain - in the spell window there are four sets of six runes. The last set of these is Ku, Ros, Dain, Neta, Ra, and Sar.
Ku is obviously the shape of a sword. It represents Fighters.
Ros is a hand reaching into a pocket or something, it's Ninjas anyway.
Dain is an arm holding a wand casting a spell - Wizzies.
And Neta is another obvious one - a cross, thereby representing Priests.
And the last two runes are Ra (good) and Sar (evil) but there isn't a Ra way and a Sar way. Anyway, these descriptions of the first four runes should give you a bit of a hint of the kind of things that may be expected in each of the four ways.)

Heh, thanks for the info. I really don't remember any names for runes. Normally I read game manual AFTER I complete game ( If it is possible to "complete"game. Games like Championship manager 01/02 or Football Manager 2005 never end ). But there are some games that I have completed, but have checked out manual. If game has some kind of copy protection, then sometimes manual is a must.

On DM I didn't care about rune names. I bought "CSB + DM Double pack". I think there were manuals, but I didn't bother to read them. I played some time ( DM ) and checked out every rune combination that creates something. If combination did something I didn't know, then I just wrote down like "4 2 casts a bolt that does no damage". When ( After some time later ) scroll said that "...weakens nonmaterial beings", I just tested these "unknown 2 rune spells" and after some tries I found out that this "4 2"-spell is useful for Nonmaterial Ghosts and so on.

I only remember that Zo Kath Ra is the spell for that magic gem, still I don't remember what rune is for Zo and so on :)=

My story from years ago here might explain something: http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=24723

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:44 pm

The runes for the spell usually make sense only after the spell is completed, but it would give you fireball, the healing potions, etc and many potions, quite quickly. Plus let you realise the first row of symbols is power

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:59 pm

beowuuf wrote:The runes for the spell usually make sense only after the spell is completed, but it would give you fireball, the healing potions, etc and many potions, quite quickly. Plus let you realise the first row of symbols is power

Yep, first rune was quite clear. I tested what is the difference between 1 4 4 and 6 4 4 spells ( Both seem to make flaming ball ) by casting them when standing next to wall and facing it.

You can guess the results :)=

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:16 am

Ah, at last good melee weapon, Executioner.

After some travelling, Diabolic Demon Director-system was the thing for the first time.

---

Then became this Dead end-thing. Very hard to guess what happens.

I didn't bother to back off, I just hacked down those armour-sword dudes with "stand and fight"-tactics.

Then I checked that corridor and didn't find anything. But Solid key was needed to get there and other things so there has to be something important.

Hint Oracle said what to do. So I just loaded save game and fought again. But wait a second. Is it possible to complete game if you get stuck on the Dead end-corridor? If this is true, it really s**** because you might not have ANY proper save game. Even if you have, you may have to start again from faaaar away.

This type of game stopper is very bad thing if it really causes game complete to be impossible.

If I understand, Hint Oracle is meant to be used if ytou don't know what to do. This time it has to be used BEFORE you actually do anything, because you need enemies to step on somewhere.

Dead end can also mean that if you back off too much, you get something very special surprises...

Anyway, just bashed first Dragon at Dragon Den so no problems. I'll continue on wednesday.

Btw, thanks for your help. It is very nice to chat when people have at least neutral attitude. You have very positive.

Have been on many message boards. Altough mostly I write some other language than English.

As you can easilly see, English is not my native language. Far ( Very far ) from it :)=

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:31 am

The knights regenerate I believe after a while if you step on the very end of the dead end

Everyone who apologises for their english speaks it very well, and certainly better than I could muster any other language

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:00 am

I just took a look at the game, and the Knights indeed do regenerate - after more than 20 minutes, it seems! This really is annoying, though I am amazed you just bashed them to bits - but I am more of a spellcaster player than fighter, so my talents lie elsewhere (if I even have any). As far as I know, this is the only stumper you can encounter in CSB, though, so don't worry too much. I do agree with you that this isn't done very well, though.

I can only agree to what you say about the attitude of the people here. I guess that the love for Dungeon Master makes us all one big family or something. And don't worry about your English, mine is certainly not better (and remember to ALWAYS repeat how much you suck at English just for the sake of annoying Beo). *runs before the big bad angry (actually small and surprisingly non-hairy) dog can catch him*

Post by **Ameena** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:54 am

More rune info for ya...
The first set of runes is Lo, Um, On, Ee, Pal, Mon. These, as you already worked out, are the Power Runes, and determine strength and mana cost of a spell.
The second set is Ya, Vi, Oh, Ful, Des, Zo. You said you couldn't remember what Zo on its own does - Open Door spell.
Third set of runes is Ven, Ew, Kath, Ir, Bro, Gor.
And I already explained the final set of runes above - Ku, Ros, Dain, Neta, Ra, Sar.
I think rune names are given when you find a spell scroll, for example the one at the top of the stairs in the HoC in DM with "Ful" on it, I think it has the rune and "Ful" written underneath it but I can't remember since I don't read those scrolls any more 'cause I know what they say

.
Oh and btw I wouldn't have suspected you of not being English if you hadn't just said it

.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:56 am

Messing up the Dead End is not a game-stopper at all.
Go somewhere else for a while and then come back.
All will be well. I think that even incorporating things like this
on purpose is OK. Where you must visit some place more
than once over a long time period. After all, CSB is not
a linear place like DM.....there are usually other things that
need doing.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:39 am

It really does annoy me! *foam* Not the dead end thing, I agree with Paul. As long as you can complete it and not mess up the saved game, its fine to have things where you fail and have to come back later as it's bothering you to complete it

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:18 am

Ameena wrote: I think rune names are given when you find a spell scroll, for example the one at the top of the stairs in the HoC in DM with "Ful" on it, I think it has the rune and "Ful" written underneath it...

This is only the case in RTC. The original DM just assumes you know the runes by looking at the manual, it only mentions the names of the runes when you find a new spell on a scroll, but never tells you how they look.

HJP · Post by **HJP** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:36 pm

About that Dead End-thing.

I wandered around level for about 5 minutes, returned to end of corridor and so on. Nothing useful still didn't happen.

There are many examples of games, where you can complete level without gathering very important item or information. But if you must have that item on critical situation, you cannot complete the game.

Very nice when you are at boss-level and you don't know 4-digit key code that has 10000 possible combinations... ( You can get it from place XXX on earlier level of course )

You can guess code it takes some time.

Another example is Ultima Underworld 2. Game is impossible to complete ( Without patch ) if you happen not to talk "right" and servants begin strike. This seems to be just a little drawback, but it means that game won't proceed. My friend was totally stuck and he borrowed game to me if I can figure out what to do. Those were times when Internet was an unknown thing.

Now this Dead End-thing seems to be possible to solve with just resting/waiting long enough. But when Hint Oracle says something, it generally holds some true. In this case I didn't know if this was a bug, if it is possible to complete when returning later or something.

This is the same thing. There is no point to explore all other places first, if this Dead End-screwing means game is impossible to complete. Of course, if you need key XXX for any door, then it is clear that you need this key and if you do not have it, you must explore more.

If your info is right, there are no absolute game stoppers. Next time I know that and search other places first in cases like this.