!! Some NEW tricks !!

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:02 am

Well, it's been a bit too long ago to provide any, sorry

If you can give me link to latest CSBw I'll give it a shot. I looked in the other thread and on your web, but there's a directory with half dozen files and I am totally unsure what to download.
I think every few steps I did I was getting an error msg saying something about something not being implemented... I don't really know. It just kept happening all the time so I got bored and deleted the whole thing. I like DOS DM the most anyway

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:56 pm

I like DOS DM the most anyway

There ain't nothing wrong with that. Use what you like
best.

There is a directory
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/Games/
That contains several games, DM included.
Each game includes all the pieces necessary to
play that one game, hopefully without incident.
If you have problems, we will deal with them provided
you report them and are willing to help reproduce the
problems.

http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/CSBwin-CSBuild.zip
contains the most recent versions of CSBwin and CSBuild.
It changes daily and is used primarily for advanced projects
that are in the planning/development stage.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:43 pm

beowuuf wrote:Use CSBwin and create portrait charatcers with experience added to the four skills as you like to see the effect

The poitn of the game isn't stats really, which is why lots are hidden I guess!

I don't understand what this means at all. Can you explain, please?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:49 pm

Open CSBuild, tell it to open the dungeon.dat file you are playing with. You will notice that champion portraits are made up of infact two parts - the champion mirror with the picture, but more importantly a floor tile (that doesn't sound) with the character details (name, experience, stats)

If you click on the text to edit it, there is an 'advanced' checkbox that lets you edit the stats of the charatcer to be freed. You edit the hidden skills experience (and hence the not hidden levels too) through the stats associated. If you highlight 'strength' then you will open up the boxes to edit the four hidden fighter skills experience boxes. The total experience from these four boxes becomes the normal fighter level experience.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:52 pm

Thank you. It's clear now.

Octopuss wrote:...looking at it once more, I don't understand the X profession Y. What's Y?

So, any idea? I couldn't think of anything.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:48 pm

Oh, I see, on the bottom table. Not quite sure. Look at the graphics.dat through the 'adge' tool available for download through the tools forum - the graphics.dat contains the graphics and abilities of items, including their attack names and methods. If you compare the attack methods there with the attack methods as stated on the website, you may tie up the X and Y numbers

Or Christophe can make it clear here!

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:25 pm

One of those is obviously and logically the skill associated, be it visible or hidden one. The other one doesn't make any sense at all. I redid the table in Excel and sorted it based on the skill, not name of the action.
For anyone's viewing pleasure: http://3web.dkm.cz/octopuss/temp/actions.xls

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:38 pm

Couldn't had been made less confusing. The X is number of the attack out of the total 20 and Y is the "subnumber" associated with given class or how would you call it. Mystery solved.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:26 pm

Was anyone mad enough to train up to hm... 5th master or so, using the "lvl13 technique"? I realized doing screamers while having 2nd master fighters and mages is not too effective

[/quote]

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:22 am

I don't think monster type affects experience gain at all - just takes so much longer to get to each level

If you wait for conflux III, I think the leveling up is biased slightly so that you can advance into the master levels quite easily by the end of the game

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:47 am

Nono, I meant screamers=lvl4 (?). Was talking about not being too effective to train on this lvl with all chars being above lo masters.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:50 am

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Lol, no, it won't be as affactive as the rat rooms of level 9 or even better going down to chaos and going many rounds with him, then filling up on rats

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:04 pm

Oh yea, about 4 years ago I managed to get to Ee masters wizards on screamer level. I was quite hardcore back then - or rather uneducated

edit: if I just grab skeleton key on lvl 6 (?) and run all the way to 12, is it possible to get to any of the black flames? I just checked maps and am in doubt a bit. It looks like I need to there the "legal" way...

Jano 663 · Post by **Jano 663** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:40 am

For stone club you can hit enemy so for 250 as for 15 hp. Its strange, but as you are advanced in levels, the ratio radically decreases. In neophyte-apprentice you may hit around 190-220, but this is only random.

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:18 pm

Am I correct if I gather from this thread an its Encyclopaedia links, that the Gem of Ages and the Sceptre of Lyf improve the HEAL hidden priest skill, used for casting healing spells/potions and heal actions from items, the Moonstone not only increases Mana by +3 but also increases the INFLUENCE hidden priest skill, used for warcry, blow, brandish, confuse, and the Ekkhard Cross increases the DEFEND hidden priest skill, used for casting YaBro and FulBroNeta or using spellshield and fireshield from items?

Is the Moonstone's INFLUENCE boost also valid for DM2 (I ask because some of the information here refers to DM2, but the Encyclopaedia lists this bonus for the Moonstone only in the DM1 and CSB item list, but not in the DM2 item list)?

Do these items have the exactly same boosting effect in RTC too (HEAL/INFLUENCE/DEFEND)? George? Same question for the detailed damage and armour values the Encyclopaedia has researched and published?

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:56 pm

You are certainly right about Gem of Ages etc. and the hidden
skill increase.
see:
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/doc ... stery.html

I would say for dm2 an item behaviour similar to dm is very likely

concerning RTC items , I have no idea.

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:27 pm

Yes, but since I only very rarely play PC-DM or CSBWin these days, but mainly RTC it is very important to me, whether these hidden skills and their item boosts exist in RTC or not. Don't get me wrong, I do NOT expect RTC to exactly mirror the FTL engine. RTC is a separate engine that only tries to re-create an FTL-like game experience, and I wouldn't want it to bend itself to become a different engine. However, if the Encyclopaedia says an item improves a character's skill in potion brewing or shielding I would like either RTC to make the item do something similar (preferably), no matter by what internat calculation this is done, or, if RTC is not able to do it, I would at the very least just like to know it, so I don't expect something from RTC it just doesn't do.

George, can you please comment this, for I think you are the only one who'd know?!

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:34 pm

The effect of the gem of ages was very pronounced in low level charatcers, you should fire up a test dungeon and see if your charatceristics improve markedly...it would be a quick way to know if RTC is aping this behaviour at all, or not aping it well enough/not doing it

A low level priest should be able to cast a potion power level above normal with the gem of ages on...not actually seen the difference with the other gems personally but imagine it would be a similar effect

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:55 pm

Beo: I'm not sure about that: In FTL-DM the chances to cast a spell somwhat above the capability of your casters seems to be quite better than in RTC. In FTL this works at least occasionally, even if there is more than just one or two levels of difference. In RTC this almost never works. As mentioned before, I do not demand RTC to be identical to FTL in such respects, I just would like to know how things actually are.
And I would like RTC to somehow reflect these hidden capabilities of items like staves, by whatever method, for I think that is one of the subtle yet important aspects of FTL-DM; and while I did not have any hard facts about the existence of these hidden skills, I suspected them to exist for years, even from a mere player's perspective without any source-code knowledge. I found it quite amazing to find some of my assumptions confirmed by threads that reveal some code internals, and because this is among the qualities that make FTL-DM great, I would like to know how much of it made it into RTC. That's why I'm directly asking George for his comment, because in the end that is what truly counts.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:00 pm

Is the Moonstone's INFLUENCE boost also valid for DM2

I think it is very unlikely. DM2GDED (http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/721) does show the mana bonus for moonstone (look at item 27 in the Misc category), but no value is present for an INFLUENCE bonus.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:51 am

Necrooo

I am bored at work at times, so I decided to grab DOSBox and restarted older save in early levels.

Few new questions:

I am still optimistic about raising fighter levels with shields, but it's terribly slow and boring, not doing any dmg at all - weird thing, according to stats I should. Anyway: I haven't gotten deep enough to test whether the hidden defensive skill makes a difference or not - can anyone tell me?

Stab in DM uses ninja skill? What's this? Why unused? I sure as hell don't see any way why SWORD would life off ninja skills

Code: Select all

14	Stab (unused)	05: Thrust (Hidden Fighter skill)	12	-15	4	42	60	10

Is it still impossible to get mouse to click automatically? There should be some programs that allow for preconfigured mouse moving and clicking in windowed mode... Hell I hate the idea of clicking ten thousands times per char to get to higher master in some skills...

Post by **Sophia** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:01 pm

Octopuss wrote:Hell I hate the idea of clicking ten thousands times per char to get to higher master in some skills...

So don't do it, and play the game right instead.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:27 pm

kentaro's editor can get you some starting powerful characcters, right?

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:02 pm

What the hell!! I don't do it for fun

I do it so my chars are totally uber ;D

Anyone went the "defensive way"? I gotta need a tip how long is it worth it to train this way - at some point I will need to raise the damage skills as well

On a side note: this is totally awesome way of killing time at work

Post by **ChristopheF** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:16 pm

Octopuss wrote:Stab in DM uses ninja skill? What's this? Why unused?

"Unused" because no weapon uses this attack.
Note that there are two attacks named "Stab", number 9 and 14.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:46 pm

Well, does that mean Diamond edge uses ninja attack then?

(and I hope someone will answer the other questions, too

)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:03 pm

Yep, the diamond edge in the hands of a master ninja has been said to be awesome!

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:22 am

IS experience still gained after reaching archmaster? I mean let's say I somehow macro archmaster fighter with the shield "trick" - that'd leave me with lots of defense (I guess!) but low (considering archmaster) attack skills - can this still be raised by normal whacking at crap?

As for magic skills - do I understqand correctly that it's just about the chance of cast, or are the potions - let's only talk about the mon ones - variably strong depending on creator's skill?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:43 am

Yes, a 'mon' potion still has a variance range, I'm not sure how much depends on caster and how much depends on luck. But there is a power range of 0 - 255 associated with potions.

There is definitely a variance with magic missiles too - you can see the difference between a newly castable mon fireball and the balls of death an archmaster can throw, even though both are mon level.

The CSBwin source code is around, and while it is spagetti to my knowledge, at the least the vague workings could be seen (such as caluculations if you look for some functions called 'spell'. Also, Paul has documented some functiosn (forget if experience was fully definied or only given the basic learning function)

Of course, people like Paul himself or Sophia have waded throug hthe code and can answer better

In therory I would guess that somehow the 'base' skill is also taken into account somehow, otherwise you would not be able to gain access to fighter feats at the normal level if you hadn't used that skill at all - and yet you can.

But yes, the only limit to your experience gain would be the database figure...so if raw experience and not your actual rank is used in any calculations, then experinece would make a difference.

Octopuss · Post by **Octopuss** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:53 am

I tend to avoid anything coding-based ever since I did the obligatory Turbo Pascal course in college

Gonna wait for Paul what he can say about experience at archmaster level. I sure as hell wouldn't be happy to realize I have dozens of defence, but do pathetic hits

edit: oh - does disrupt with vorpal blade give wizard xp if you aren't tearing apart anus of a ghost or something?