[Done for V0.38] Max light level is too bright

GolaWaya · Post by **GolaWaya** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:21 pm

Hey,

I wanted to say first off great job on RTC! I played the original Dungeon Master when I was a young kid with my father so playing this brings back memories. My biggest beef with it is the changes to the light level works, while I do agree it does a great job making the darkness spell usefull, it makes it nearly impossible to try to help new characters gain a wizard level early on (at least in your remake as the darkness spell is not acceable). I ended up having to waste almost 1/2 an hour waiting for the spells to wear off. Perhaps make some of the 'new' features optional by setting them on and off in the config file. So that players can choose if they want to use the new brightness level options.

Just a thought.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:27 pm

Almost all apart from light are infact configurable in the config file, or are removed if the 'dm original' dungeon is chosen.

I agree, the light model does seem to be one step too far for many people who like to repeatidly cast light spells for spell practice and should maybe be added to the config list aswell.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:27 pm

Light was configurable.. and I thought it still is. You could have the step mode or the gradual mode..

no idea why it would be removed

then again.. reading now.. I see perhaps it's about the cumulative effect for the spells.. that's being discussed in annother thread to fix that..

moo

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:41 pm

Well, it doens't need fixed so much as optional. I thin t's a good idea,a fter all who cats 1000 light spells unless they are triaing? Meanwhile it can be used as an attack or interesting effect by the rest of us - like me. I have an idea for it!

TheMormegil · Post by **TheMormegil** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:57 am

You can cast light spells until your characters reach neophyte wizard and then train with zo. It shouldn't get too bright this way.
I'm not arguing against it being optional but its not difficult to work around.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:33 am

As I said, unless you are training a character it won't affect a normal game (and there is a 100 - 200% light level catch all where it stays the same brightness) but it is a difference to DM that people training maybe don't want

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:58 pm

I agree, it IS a nice addition, but it should be optional via the config file.

Post by **Sophia** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:55 pm

I would like to dissent and say it should not be optional in all cases-- perhaps something the dungeon designer can set, as well?

I am currently throwing together a few design ideas with puzzles/mechanics that depend on extra-bright lighting.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:13 pm

I'm with Sophia / Beowuuf on this one. Changing the light level should *not* be configurable by the user because it means that certain puzzles / traps won't work!

I agree that this is different from DM and you can't go around casting light spells willy-nilly for training, but personally I think that's a good thing - all it means though is that you should slightly adjust your tactics (as suggested above, try zo's instead etc).

Post by **Lunever** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:31 pm

Right, but as mentioned in another post: The linear addition is just to bright: Try it, get 4 champions, each with a torch, and everything will be white. The BEST solution would be to have a reddish light effect for fiery lights like torches, fireballs and Ful-spells, the reddish light HAVING a maximum limit, and a linear additive white light effect for daylight-like effects like OhIrRa, Illumulet, Light-effects from wands and staffs etc.

If it is to complicated to implement different colours (albeit it'd be cool - think of the dialogues in and descriptions of Moria), I suggest allowing unlimited light addition for OhIrRa-like effects only anyway.

Post by **Sophia** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:37 pm

If this is going to be done, then please make the use of the other colors optional-- giving the whole dungeon a reddish tint feels very un-DM to me and I would probably hate it!

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:28 pm

Plus would mess with a dungeon that isn't using torchlight

No, I thin kwhat george said in the other thread was fine, just pushing the mimit up a bit more or taking into account the primary light source - but other than that if everyone would stop whining and training really! Monsters ungroup, stats can be boosted to 255 not 170, etc. It's just another little engine quirk.

Post by **Lunever** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:57 pm

It's just been an idea. But any solution that won't all to easily bath everything in shining white will be fine with me.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:59 pm

Maybe just upping the normal zone from 100% - 200% to 100 - 300%

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:49 am

This is now fixed for V0.38 - you now need about 40 torches to max out the brightness...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:40 pm

Hnm, that seems to have gone to the other extreme and mean you never get a white out.

Surely a party would only really ever have say two torches in hand - two fighters attackign two monsters... with oerhaps a ful spell or two still fading out

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:52 pm

beowuuf wrote:Surely a party would only really ever have say two torches in hand - two fighters attackign two monsters... with oerhaps a ful spell or two still fading out

Indeed, and that will result in a "normal" level of light (as it should).

beowuuf wrote:Hnm, that seems to have gone to the other extreme and mean you never get a white out.

No, it's still quite easy to white out if you try putting down a few longer lasting light spells and include light from multiple different sources.

What it does mean though, is that you won't get a white out during normal play, only if you over-train with ful spells.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:05 pm

Oh, white out being full whiteness on screen, so theoverbrightness would still happen much lower

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:08 pm

Yep - exactly.

To get maximum whiteout you need an awful lot more light. To get alot of whiteness you need quite a bit more light. To get a bit of white, then that's about the same as before...

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:11 pm

...in fact the onset of brightening occurs at the same level as before (but it will be less noticable, and increase at a lower rate).

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:14 pm

Logarithmic scales are great!

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:40 pm

Just as a quick aside: the additive belnding for the white out that you introduced a few versions ago is so much better than the simple white transparency we used to get -- looks a lot more realistic now and even more so with true colour hi-res images. Thank you!