[Done for V0.38] Chaos health

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:02 am

According to RTCEd Chaos has health 10000 . If I do damage to him with a weapon, does the engine actually subtract that damage from Chaos health? How did FTL-DM handle this?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:25 am

Chaos had that in health in DM, looked like he was taking damage, but I believe the engine jsut went 'lalalala' and forgot to take it away from his stats. Paul S could shed some light on the exactl interrupt for invincible monsters, I am sure

TheMormegil · Post by **TheMormegil** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:49 am

I'm pretty sure that I killed chaos in RTC once. Oh course you can't finish the game then. Unless it was a dream...
A feel a test with a 1 health lord chaos coming on.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:53 am

Yes, in RTC Chaos can theoretically be killed (if your party is strong enough). This is because killing Chaos isn't necessarily the end of the game (e.g. in CSB).

If you've managed to kill him with 10000 health, I'll add a few more 0's to the end

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:13 pm

Ask zyx and sophia...there are insane people who will, if a critter is around who can be damaged, sleep and sleep and take tons of time to try and kill it

Can I suggest an unkillable flag dfor monsters? HP won't do it, and the ability to have only special items able to kill or incapacitate them seems mandatory

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:37 pm

Well, in the case of an archmaster Chaos, a potion-maxe-out Ee-master tank with the best weapon available will do 1-4 points of damage, although 3-4 are rather rare. That means, normally I would hit him until he has only 1 HP left before killing him, but with these settings that will take just to long.

I think Chaos being virtually unkillable with 10000 health is absolutely ok, I don't see the need for an unkillable flag (but of course it might be made available for future custom monsters). So it is possible to defeat him conventionally, but it is far more taxing than simply fusing him. However, if Chaos is killed, the dungeon should be finished just the same as if he was fused. This might happen only very rarely, but it might happen that Chaos disperses to smoke and because you didn't know the firestaff yet and it's been the first time you defeated Chaos the first thing you did after killing him was overwriting your last savegame, and now you can't finish the game anymore. I would consider this possibility and bug and thus have an alternate end CHAOS_KILLED (or LIBRAULUS_KILLED or GREY_LORD killed, or fused) added.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:16 pm

Trust me, someone will try, and complain

There is a need for an unkillableflag, people have and will taken on unkillable monsters who use HP and killed them. Zyx had a monster wityh intricate puzzle for getting killed, and Ian took it out. I believe Sophia had a friendly creatrue with large HP in RTC, and someone killed it. Perosnally I'm all in favour of havign creatrues you don't just slug it out with to kill, that brains, the right weapon, etc is needed for - hence unkillabel flag!

And why crerate a chasos_killed flag that is only useful then for D? When you could just have chaos dying generate an action that targets the end game pad and a text which say 'you are stupid but opersistent'

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:54 pm

that`s just the dilema I`ve got while constructing dungeon: is the "unkillable" monster in CSBwin REALLY unkillable, if he`s got "only" 65536 hit points (after flagging him as "infinite HP" in the editor)?
That`s why I made my unkillable (or maybe better to say "theorecticly killable, practicly unkillable") 262140 HP (four 65536 HPs monsters on the same tile drawn as one), to make killing him less probably (but maybe infact there was no need to do it).
Ok, let`s say I put unkillable (262140 HP) black flame (four black flames with infinite HP each, drawn as one) as a "guardian" for the tile with end-game pad actuator. To get there you have to, say, get four corbums from all-over the game to activate a teleporter teleporting you to the end-game tile. But if there were a maniac who would spend 48 hours fighting with that monster and kill him finally? Then we`ve got a problem.

That`s just a theory, I believe noone would be THAT crazy.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:06 pm

All good points - I've now added a "invincible" flag for monsters in V0.38.

This will mean that any damage done is not deducted from the monsters health (note that the party will still get a "damage done" value box when attacking with weapons, but no damage will actually be done)

Des · Post by **Des** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:29 pm

Just a quick check - if you have a clone of "Elsie" that is meant to be killable in a 0.37 compiled RTC, he will remain killable running under 0.38 unless the dungeon is recompiled without turning off the flag on the clone?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:46 pm

Who's Elsie?

The generic issues though

- The original Chaos compiled under V0.37 and before will now not be killable in V0.38.
- A *clone* of Chaos compiled under V0.37 and before will still be killable in V0.38.
- If you recompile the txt file under V0.38 then it won't be killable (unless you change the flag).

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:23 pm

Umm, adamo, in CSBwin the '65336 HP is code for unkillable - because there is no set flag, if the engine sees that HP, it will not remove HP form the monster (or something). In conflux the immortal scorpion and balrog have this flag, so you cannot kill them.
Naturally the engine (i think through graphics.dat) has Libby, grey and chaos as unkillable no matter their HP

Des · Post by **Des** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:43 pm

"Elsie" = LC = you know who. He really doesn't like being called a girl's name - guess that's why War Cry works so well on him

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:48 pm

Sneaky, like Eltee

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:41 pm

ooh I`ve got it now! so if monster has 65536 HP it`s unkillable, if has 65535 it`s killable. sorry, my mistake.

Post by **Sophia** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:46 pm

Lord Chaos is really a girl!

Paul H., Beo and I figured this all out in FlashChat one day... oh yes!

Des wrote:"Elsie" = LC = you know who. He really doesn't like being called a girl's name - guess that's why War Cry works so well on him

Post by **Lunever** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:45 am

LOL! Visit the dungeon of mistress Elsie and her servants!

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:55 am

You'll be becca for more

Post by **Ameena** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:52 pm

So while Lord Chaos is a girl, does that mean Lord Order is a friendly greeting?

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:18 am

'Ello to you too..