DM2 with RTC [Done for version...something or other]

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:36 pm

Ok, not saying im going to attempt it or anything, but im just curious. With George's phenominal effort of adding new features to RTC..

Would it be safe to say that DM2 could be reproduced using the 0.39 engine?

Is anyone going to attempt it? (or has anyone started)?

and

If there is stuff missing, what is it? (the minions im assuming will be the first thing on the list)... George: could you add attack methods that monsters use only against other monsters to get round this?

Open to the floor?

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:39 pm

As an extra note, maybe if the graphics have all been extracted by someone, george could add them to the graphics built into RTC so that some people could have a crack at this.

I wasnt worried about that half step movement that dm2 had, i was talking Dungeon mechanics mainly. George, would there be issues importing the DM2 Graphics if they were provided to you? (wasnt suggesting you remake the dungeon or anything) im sure if the tools were available someone here would have a go.

Or if not, it would give everyone a couple more wallsets and some new monsters to play with that were still in the DM tradition.

We have seen shops, tables, monsters that dont attack. Surely its getting close to being able to handle it.

What do you all think?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:44 pm

I think AI for monsters who actively target other monsters is the only thing missing - with it minion spells could be done, and also other poeple's ideas for armies fighting, ally creatures, etc

I think anything else liek the actual DM2 interface won't be missed, the coin box is doable in a different but no lesser way, and otherwsie everything seems ready for someone to give it a damn good try!

Post by **Sophia** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:06 am

I'd be happy to lend my perverse mind for dungeon mechanics to any such effort, though I'm not too interested in graphics ripping, actually reproducing the maps, etc.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:20 am

If we ask GG real nice, he may be able to sort the Minion attack methods out by adding monster attack methods that are only used against otehr monsters.

Moving tables can just about be done with current mechanicswith the new ROTATE that is in there we should be able to do the mirrors (cloning teleporters for the fireball reflectors).

Just the shops then...

Post by **Ameena** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:23 am

What about leaving keys in the lock of a door to enable it to be opened/closed, but when you remove the key it doesn't work? Well I suppose you can set up something like that anyway, you'd just have to make it convert to a different graphic with a key sticking out or something...
And umm the way wolves jump over pits?
And the Tech Shield?
And errm...well I think I'm probably just nitpicking here so I'll shut up now

.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:27 am

I never played DM2 (oh the shame) and so not sure how minions work, but it's certainly possible to create new monsters with spells now and with a bit of a tweak, could be made to hunt down and attack other monsters, I'll have a look into that sooner rather than later.

Not sure about the moving tables thing, but Sophia will probably be able to work out a way!

As for the graphics, I'm not so keen on adding them into the default set; purely on grounds of bloat of the download. That said, I'm open to persuasion...

Post by **Sophia** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:38 am

Will all those 20 bazillion move_thingy actions be able to move tables?

Anyway, the wolves jumping over pits and the tech shield could be done easily with creative use of teleporters and triggers...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:49 am

yueah, the tech shield only let you go to a finite number of places,a so should be easily done...ish..kinda...

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:00 am

Will all those 20 bazillion move_thingy actions be able to move tables?

Well, it would, but only if you can get the table to perform the action...and I can't quite see how you'd do that!

What does the Tech shield do then?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:09 am

Hehe, simple, you stick a pillar in the same place, cause a pillar can have wall triggers assocaited with it, (still clickable even if no graphics associated with either) and so you can click on the table!

Tech shield, there were certain sqaures around DM2 you could nominate as a destination - thenm if you went to any of the other squares and used the shield to teleport, you would end up at the destination

Post by **Gambit37** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:45 am

Minion maps still won't work in RTC. Or the battering Rams.

DM2 would definitely need some custom code in the EXE, certainly not doable with just dungeon mechanics.

Post by **Sophia** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:19 am

Gambit37 wrote:Or the battering Rams.

Why, pray tell, not?

Post by **Lunever** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:12 am

Allied monsters would absolutely be a gain for RTC, no matter of DM2 minions spells or not. DM2 grafix too, for they would make it alot easier for custom dungeons to include outdoor settings too, without having to draw them by yourself.

Post by **Sophia** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:02 am

RTC comes with some of the outdoor DM2 graphics already included. They are used in one of the example dungeons.

They look neat

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:32 am

George, how easy would it be to import the DM2 graphics into a seperate file that could be downloaded seperatley, and when added to the RTC folder, it picked up graphics from there as well as teh standard files?

I think most people here would download it anyway even if it was a lot bigger.

It sounds like there are a few things that would be needed to be added as features, if we could get a list of them in another post after we thrash them out here, we could see how feasable they were. If you can think of a way to solve one of the problems raised, stick down a note on how to get round it with current mechanics and we can give it a shot.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:58 am

Sophia wrote:
Gambit37 wrote:Or the battering Rams.
Why, pray tell, not? :D

No idea what battering rams do in DM2, but taking a wild guess they'd be a combination of the club and crowbar in the example complex actions dungeon - and therefore doable already.

George, how easy would it be to import the DM2 graphics into a seperate file that could be downloaded seperatley, and when added to the RTC folder, it picked up graphics from there as well as teh standard files?

Well, you can zip the graphics up and have the [New-Bitmaps] section of the text file in another text file that you can copy-and-paste into your own dungeon file in seconds already...

...as I mentioned above though, I'm open to persuasion and could include them (and possibly even the monsters / objects) in the download.

RTC comes with some of the outdoor DM2 graphics already included. They are used in one of the example dungeons.

They look neat

Why thankyou! However, I only got them by very quickly copy-and-pasting them from screenshots and then stretching them to fit the different perspective of DM compared with DM2. I did the whole lot in about half and hour and I would recommend that they're done again properly with a little bit more care and attention!

It sounds like there are a few things that would be needed to be added as features, if we could get a list of them in another post after we thrash them out here, we could see how feasable they were. If you can think of a way to solve one of the problems raised, stick down a note on how to get round it with current mechanics and we can give it a shot.

Definitely a good idea. If even there's something that *could* be done already but is horrifically complex AND would be very very easy to do in the engine, then I'd be happy to add it in to the engine as well...

Post by **Zyx** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:01 am

Kentaro did a tool to extrtact all the graphics and sounds from DM2.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:29 am

Battering rams were items that appeared to come out of the wall and take up the whoel tile besdie a pit. Retraced you coudl walk passed, fuklly extended you couldn't, if you were on the tile at the time you woudl get pushed into the pit! As sophia hinted, seems quite doable even before all this new stuff ; )

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:51 am

Yep, could be done already with teleporters and pillars. Now is probably easier done with an ACTION_MOVE_PARTY_EAST (or whatever direction) triggered by stepping on a trigger on the relevant tile...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:51 am

Indeedy : )

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:05 pm

If Kentaro did a tool to extract gfx, do you think he has them all extracted in a handy ZIP file somewhere?

A

Post by **Lunever** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:52 pm

Copperman had them extracted too and sent them to me in a zip file, so I can provide them.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:13 pm

can you send them over to me so I can have a play around with them in RTC?

Ok, so we got the gfx, how bout sounds?

Post by **Lunever** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:49 pm

If you still have the yahoo adress you gave me ages ago, you should have them by now there.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:06 pm

i do, I will check it now, thanks Lunever.

A

copperman · Post by **copperman** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:51 pm

Those images still need work, sizing and power pinking.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:57 pm

Andyboy, Copperman: Since both of you seem to be invlolved with trying to port DM2 elements into RTC, maybe it'd be useful if you'd figure out a solution for this together?

copperman · Post by **copperman** » Sat May 20, 2006 1:37 am

Are you suggesting a team DM2. Dunno if I have the time and/or concentration span for that. I am however "processing the DM2 images into the format mentioned above, when I'm done I'll let you know

Post by **Lunever** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:41 am

Having the DM2 images processed would be a great step and a real gain for RTC, no matter what'd come after that.