Rabbit's Foot

Des · Post by **Des** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:54 pm

Playing around with making magic items in 0.38, I noticed a couple of things about the Rabbit's Foot. It gives a bonus of 400 which seems a bit high (or have I misunderstood how the percentage works?)

The other thing is that items which are not worn and do get equipped in either hand do not give stat bonuses. So does the Rabbit's Foot actually work - i.e. is it a special case? Or can items in your inventory boost the hidden stats and not the visible ones?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:05 pm

Nope 400 is about right. Normally, each character has about a 1% chance of scoring a lucky hit. When the rabbits foot is equipped, that rises to 5% (i.e. a bonus of 400%).

As for the second point - all bonuses work the same (there's no distinction between hidden or otherwise); an item needs to be equipped before its stats bonus is applied. I'm not sure what you mean though by "items which are not worn and do get equipped in either hand do not give stat bonuses". Can you give a concrete example of this?

Post by **Lunever** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:21 pm

I think the rabbit's foot is not supposed to be euipped, it's bonus should also work while being carried in the backpack (although I could live with the requirement of "equipping" it into the pouch slot). If you'd have to carry the rabbit's foot in your action hand it'd become pretty pointless. So, in V0.38, where does the rabbit's foot have to be to grant it's bonus?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:54 pm

Ooops - the rabbits foot is meant to be equipped when in either hand; I'll fix this for V0.39.

As you point out; it's pretty useless if its right hand only...

Post by **Lunever** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:20 pm

Hmm, while the new equippping rules have much potential, their current application is far too restrictive. Does anyone know how the FTL engine handled the rabbit's foot? I don't think it was ever meant to be worn in either hand.

Post by **Sophia** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:33 pm

I agree, for some items, it would probably be nicer to have an option to apply the stats bonus as long as the item is simply carried anywhere...

Des · Post by **Des** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:32 pm

Sorry, my orignal post wasn't too clear.

In the original DM, the rabbit's foot only has to be in your inventory. If you view its properties via the clone button it in 0.38, it does not get equipped in either hand, nor can it be worn anywhere, so it has no effect.

As Sophia said, there would have to be a "in inventory" option to make it work as per the original game. Alternatively the designer could change the graphic to give it a little string so it can be worn around the neck.

As for the luck thing, I've never been too sure how this works in both original DM as well as RTC. I thought in original DM it affected your chances of being hit in some way. The explanation for how the percentages work in RTC is fine.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:49 pm

Des wrote:Sorry, my orignal post wasn't too clear.

In the original DM, the rabbit's foot only has to be in your inventory. If you view its properties via the clone button it in 0.38, it does not get equipped in either hand, nor can it be worn anywhere, so it has no effect.

Yep - and you're correct (but this is now fixed for V0.39 so that it's equipped when in either hand - in practice, you'd probably only ever equip it in your left hand though as discussed above).

Des wrote:Alternatively the designer could change the graphic to give it a little string so it can be worn around the neck.

...or any number of other possibilities. As with the dex helm or power towers, you can also have everything from a luck helm, to a lucky pair of slippers in RTC (and any object can have any number of different effects simultaneously)...

Des wrote:As for the luck thing, I've never been too sure how this works in both original DM as well as RTC. I thought in original DM it affected your chances of being hit in some way. The explanation for how the percentages work in RTC is fine.

Same here - I've no idea how luck worked so I made it up. If anyone has any interesting suggestions as to how to apply it (or the level of bonus given for different items) then just let me know.

Post by **Lunever** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:49 pm

I also thought that luck would constantly shift and be increased for every failed roll of a character and decreased for every successful roll. I thought luck should be rolled after a failed roll and on a success make the originally failed roll succeed. The rabbit's foot would somehow increase that hidden luck stat of a character by increasing the chances for the luck-post-roll to succeed. Am I wrong with that? Does RTC do anything similar or is luck in RTC critical hit chance only?

Post by **Lunever** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:54 pm

Simultaneous posting. Yet it seems to me that all of us here somehow are unclear to each other. George, allowing the rabbit's foot to be equipped in the left hand for V0.39 does fix the bug of it being utterly useless, but the point is that this very item should be considered equipped no matter whether it is in the right or the left hand, the pouch slots or the backpack. If it's not already available, an EQUIP_POUCH and EQUIP_BACKPACK or something alike that should implemented, and it should be applied to the rabbit's foot for V0.39.

Daecon · Post by **Daecon** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:57 am

George Gilbert wrote: ...or any number of other possibilities. As with the dex helm or power towers, you can also have everything from a luck helm, to a lucky pair of slippers in RTC (and any object can have any number of different effects simultaneously)...

Giant novelty fluffy bunny lucky Rabbit's Foot slippers.

The monsters will probably be too busy laughing at you to attack...

Post by **Ameena** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:16 am

Ooh, Were-Rabbits...who beat their chests and go "Awwooooo!!!", causing all nearby "proper" bunnies to do the same...

Post by **Lunever** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:04 pm

Ameena: Were-rabbits ... wouldn't be that unusual, after all I was once awakened by were-sheep. When I decided very late at night at a friend's birthday party to sleep for a while stoned and drunk on his couch, I was suddenly shaken from sleep by a very loud "Baaaaaaaaaaah". My friends had decided to start a paper & pen RPG late at night, and the sound was the storyteller simulating the were-sheep the characters were encountering during their trecking tour in the scottish highlands. They had a slight problem, beause they had unwittingly thrown away the only effective weapon - a magical shepherd's crook.

If you want to see a couple of rather unusual were-creatures I recommend the Werewolf - the Apocalypse - player's guide. Werecrocodiles, weresharks...

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:10 pm

I've been thinking about this some more, and I think that this is one of those rare occasions that doing something different from the original is a good thing.

My rationale is that the effect of the rabbits foot in FTL-DM was totally un-noticable (as demonstrated by the fact that no-one knows what it did)! Purely from a stand point of game mechanics it would therefore be better to have something which had a noticable effect, but to balance that, can only be used in a more restricted way.

Specifically, the effect of the rabbits foot should be at least as good as the effect of a shield (i.e. it is an item worth finding and giving up a precious equipment slot for). So, in my mind, the only real question is then - is the current power of the rabbits foot appropriate?

Post by **Lunever** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:46 pm

Well, seems that we won't agree here. I personally don't care about the rabbit's foot actual efficiency, but having it to carry it around in a hand appears silly to me. It's just that sort of talisman you don't keep waving around, rather the sort of lucky-charm you keep in your pocket and know it's there.
But even if we don't agree in regard to this, Sophia is right: It would be useful if at least dungeon designers would be allowed to create custom items that grant their stat bonus even when in the pouch or the backpack (well, at least EQUIP_POUCH should be there, because the 2-small-items-only pouch certainly wouldn't allow for much abuse).

Post by **Lunever** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:49 am

Right, so RTC wants you to carry it in the left hand now in 39. Still - does anyone know how FTL is handling this for comparison?

Daecon · Post by **Daecon** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:14 am

George Gilbert wrote: Specifically, the effect of the rabbits foot should be at least as good as the effect of a shield (i.e. it is an item worth finding and giving up a precious equipment slot for). So, in my mind, the only real question is then - is the current power of the rabbits foot appropriate?

I guess that depends on what exactly luck influences?

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:27 pm

George: One last remark why left-hand-equipping isn't enough for the rabbit's foot, if I don't convinve you then, I'll give up that topic:
As things are now, there is one sort of character that you recently made better playable that can't use the rabbit's foot - archers. You just can't hold a bow, an arrow AND a rabbit's foot.

Of course making it backpack-equipable might not be good because you could carry loads of rabbits' feet then and always make lucky strikes. That's why I still suggest making it equipped in the pouch inventory slots, since this would limit every character to a maximum of 2 such items (or allow it everywhere but make it non-stackable, but that might be more complicated to implement so I vote for the pouch).

copperman · Post by **copperman** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:41 pm

I vote for the pouch too, that's where I alwqays keep the RF. Seems the most obvious place for it.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:00 pm

The pouch sounds ok, but I don'#t get why the backpack is bad - can you find more than two rabbit's feet in DM?

I would say backpack , but wouldn't be adversed to pouch

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:10 pm

Encyclopaedia: Rabbit's Foot: +10 Luck (hidden statistic), no matter where it is in the inventory. Boris Wizard Of Baldor (Champion)
(02,29,14) (04,10,27) (07,26,28 )

Actually I'd say backpack too, also hands and pouch, that is everywhere. But since luck works differently in RTC than in FTL and George seems to be reluctant to allow rabbits' feet everywhere I think pouch would be a good compromise, and it also seems that it would be ok for most people.

You can find 3 rabbits' feet in DM, 4 if you count the one in Boris' starting equipment (which I don't since I didn't play Boris for quite a while, and starting equipment is deleted anyway upon reimporting). In CSB you can also find 4 of them, but since some of them are in giggler possession and/or are teleported around you'll often find only 2 or 3 of them. So with the pouch solution you couldn't stack all 4 of them, which would seem ok to me. You could of course stack 2 of them, but only at the cost of other characters not having a luck boost, which also sounds ok for me, for there'd be a price inlcuded even in that little stacking.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:34 pm

We have an ORIG-DM and an RTC_DM.
My opinion its that the ORIG-DM should be
as much-as-possible identical to original DM.
Certainly not INTENTIONALLY different!
Whether you agree with the FTL folks or not.

Except for bugs, of course.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:36 pm

This is what we call a Rattenschwanz. You change sth. and
suddenly more and more comes and you see no end .

I would say decrease the lucky effect for each rabbit's foot
worn in same inventory above the first.. like 400 150 20 0.2
1% critical would go to 5% /7.5% /9% /9.18%
If that is doable..
Take into consideration cursed items, too.

I would vote for a rabbit's foot necklace.

Tonari · Post by **Tonari** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:31 am

I agree with the idea concerning EQUIP_POUCH.
I want to use this for a temporary power-up (or power-down).
And I heard speaking, some of the DM player of Japan were "Some of the item of DM2 would be effective even in case of being in the porch".

Post by **Lunever** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:34 am

I also would like to design items that are basically the opposite of the Rabbit'S Foot, like a cursed item that you have to carry around for a puzzle, but that will bring you bad luck as long as you carry it, no matter where you keep it.