The Two Lovers - RTC dungeon

[boyflea]

THE LATEST BUILD IS NOW STABLE AND A LOT HARDER!


Hi all, after much research and soul-searching I've finally hosted my awesome dungeon somewhere.

It may even make into the great Library of Dungeons.

OK, it's my first attempt, so don't expect genius.

It is hosted on a yahoo site:-
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dungeo ... r_Archive/

Or [as I've found] it's easier to navigate from here:-
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

login in: darooudm
password: visitor

The zipfile is hidden under the Files section.

(Also hosted on http://www.dmjump.net/2lovers.zip - b.)

Less than ideal, but the game itself has bugs: a saving bug causes a crash 100% in certain parts of the Dungeon. Still investigating, however if anyone wants to play the otherwise complete little dungeon, no worries.


It is a simple dungeon, which shouldn't take the veteran more than 3-6hrs to complete and find most of the 12 secrets.

Feedback welcome, as ever.


PS - be gentle.

[Parallax]

I've only begun scratching the surface, but I find that the characters regain health VERY fast, at least in the first level. It makes the fights very easy as any monster that cannot one-shot your character is basically powerless.

The brown vexirks are killable, which wouldn't be a problem if their holder disappeared when they die. As it is, the party can stand in their spot and be stuck forever. Not good. I can see several ways to fix this, from making the vexirks unkillable, to changing their movement rate to -1, or making their holder invisible and activated by a trigger on their square that reacts only to brown vexirks and with constant weight enabled.

I can't open any of the doors or find the key for the first locked door at this point, but I don't want any hint yet. I like the premise of the game and its execution so far.

EDIT: A point of aesthetic detail: the door frames have to be declared before the doors so the door is displayed on top of the frame and not the other way around, as is the case here. The difference is small, but noticeable.

And I still haven't found the key or opened any of the two side doors, or even the door upstairs.

EDIT again: I've encountered the saving crash in front of the first locked door (for which I still don't have a key but that's beside the point) Methinks it looks like an Oracle hint problem. Did you have a hint of that door that you deleted later or something? People have been reporting problems with the hint system, but they were supposed to be fixed. I've never played with it personally so I can't be much help here, but others might be.

[beowuuf]

I had the same problem as you with the no finding of a key but just found it now

[boyflea]

The iron key is a swine to spot. I might replace it with a nice golden one.
I always remember when I first played DM all those years ago spending days trying to find that first screamer key! So point taken.

I didn't put in a hint of the key either - seemed to have issues attaching hints to objects and getting the to appear in the oracle.

The holders should be off, but I may have uploaded an unfixed version... bah. That was my final fix too! Ok, will double-check on the build sent.
I bet you it's fixed in the editor, but not compiled! Sorry!

Saving crash there too eh? I reckon it is the brown vexirks - and if needs be, I'll strip them out, which would be a shame.

The doors always seem to clip oddly when monsters go through them, so I put the doors top and frames second. However, you may be right, and when creating them I did create the door first then add on the frame.

I still don't know what controls the regeneration rate of the characters though - yes they regenerate very quickly, removing a lot of the challenge. Any ideas?

Ok, I'll investigate more. Cheers guys.

[Parallax]

Fixing the txt file and forgetting to compile is a very common mistake apparently, there's even an official warning about it somewhere on these forums if I recall correctly, so in short, don't sweat it.

Now, if the fast HP regen is not something you did on purpose (like, I don't know, covering the floors with negative damagers triggered by the party, or something) then you should look into the hidden stat 'recovery awake.' 100 is the standard. If you set it lower characters will recover their hit points more slowly while awake, if you set it insanely high (I believe 9999 is the max but don't quote me on it) you can get a similar effect to what you get. I'd also try to import an external character with a value of 100, and even creating and playing a 2-tile dungeon with an agressive monster at the end to see if maybe it's something that went wrong in this particular version of RTC.

As a side note, it's a good idea to ask for one or two volunteer playtesters before releasing your game to the entire community. This way you get to iron out problems without risking turning off people who don't want to 'waste their time' on a beta version.

[George Gilbert]

Saving crash there too eh? I reckon it is the brown vexirks - and if needs be, I'll strip them out, which would be a shame.

If you send me a save game with instructions on what to do to crash it (for example, the game saves fine here, but step one pace forward and it crashes), then I'll take a look for you.

I find it almost impossible to believe that the vexirks will be the problem; vastly more likely to be a something wrong with the hints...and probably my code to handle them rather than your implementation!

As a general point of principle, if you can crash a game from an RTC file it's a bug - let me know. If you can only crash a game from a TXT file, then it's probably an error in the dungeon. There are a few exceptions, but that's a good rule of thumb.

[THOM]

A small detail:
the golden fountain at the beginning - you cannot fill your waterskin in this. i think it's because the golden one is from dmII and the waterskin from dm.
Couldn't we get that fixed in common? I had the same problem inmy dungeon and mybe we could get that work and can forget it forever...

[Parallax]

After completing the game, here are my impressions:

First, the story is great, but it makes no difference which character you choose. That's too bad, there was a lot that could have been done there.

The save bugs are omnipresent, and annoying.

The fast regeneration turns what would have been some fairly difficult combats into a cakewalk. It turned off on me once after I had basically won but I don't know what I did and I was unable to repeat it.

It is possible to 'cheat' the magic limitation even before having any mana-boosting item. LO YA potions do not cost more than 2 mana at a time to make, and Soo makes up her level handicap by having the flask from the begining. After the first priest level is gained, it's trivial to increase mana more.

By the time one reaches the hall of heroes, what's inside is not worth hiring anymore.

The tapestry at the last insult looks to me like it was meant to be hung on the wall, not folded on the floor. But maybe that's just me.

Is there a use for the DM2-style silver coins? (If there is one, don't say what it is. Just say yes. )

If one picks love over duty, one is urged to reconsider at a point at which, as far as I can tell, it is not possible to do so from lack of a key. Please check.

The brown vexirks are highly annoying in tight spaces. Please consider reducing their numbers. I found myself helping Seth more often than not just to get through. (Plus, their aim is terrible )

After killing Seth and reuniting the lovers, I was still urged to reconsider leaving. Either I missed something or something is not working quite as it should.

Otherwise, very enjoyable. I like the DM-like linearity and the story. Particularily liked the last party. I had to map the 'get lost' level to make sure I had been everywhere but I'm not resentful. Overall it could use some monster generators to break the monotony of walking back and maybe some gender-specific asides. Well done.

[boyflea]

Cheers all.

Firstly, and I do stress, this game went out contianing known bugs. I take onboard Parallax's comments regarding BETA versions, but I did release it warning others regarding the bugs and was very reluctant to release until urged to do so on the forums.

There are still huge issues with the game:-
saving game crash
HP regeneration

*I URGE PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY IT IF THEY FIND THESE AN ISSUE*
[I'll edit the header-post to reflect this]

Essentially, I need some help.

I did not realise that the waterskins did not take the waterskins, as Thom says, and I should get them fixed.

Parallax last post:-
Each character is equal - Soo is slightly easier to play due to the magic trick, but I knew she would be, so "AS DESIGNED".
Yes, there are some nice game ideas to be had having seperate character skills, but I'll save that trick for my next one.

There are other characters you could complete the dungeon with, so essentially you need not unite the couple to win.

The final message after killing Seth and uniting the couple was a tad heavy-handed. That said, if you've not figured out the secret using the silver coins[hint], then the message is therefore valid. I might reword it a bit - it only suggests you to check everything is done before leaving.

The final insult tapestry is meant to start on the floor. In hindsight, finding one on the floor may prompt people to start trying to grab the tapestries off of ALL the walls [spoiler - don't try and grab the tapestries ], so I would not do it again [establish game mechanic then tweak at end, casting doubt on all other tapestries... bad designer, slapped hand]

Regarding choosing love or duty, you get one key and face two locked doors. Initially, only one choice is available, but there is a way to unlock the other door, if you choose the right door to begin with. It is possible to unlock all 12 secrets if done right.

Right, I'll see if I can send the files to Mr Gilbert - having tried the one on his website, I'll try the old dungeon-master.com approach.

funny thing is, I am not sure if beowulf got his mail either...

All feedback greatly enjoyed. Apologies again for the bugs, but overall am glad no one has hated the basic premise yet.

[beowuuf]

I was away all weekend so I may have, just not checked it

[beowuuf]

Umm, no mail from you I'm afraid! Did you use beowulf rather than beowuuf?

[boyflea]

Ok, first I'll get the save bug and HP regeneration fixed before posting this. Also the first key will be made clearer and some minor text-changes too.

cheers for everyone's support!

[linflas]

who has a key ?

dunno but not me !

[beowuuf]

It's just grey and on the floor - keep looking!

[linflas]

grahhh.... bloody grey wallset !!

[boyflea]

Wow - this one thing has caused so much grief.

Sorry all. It will change - I'm waiting on a review of the savegame bug by GG before I continue updating this game.

It might be an idea to withdraw this map until it is stable. :S

PS - thanks for all the feedback tho.

[beowuuf]

That involves effort and I enjoy seeing tohers suffering

[linflas]

oh btw the key i missed is yellow.. i should go and see an ophthalmologist

[beowuuf]

I have no words to say, just a grin

[Tom Hatfield]

Sounds interesting, but are there enough hints so people can properly choose the correct sequence of doors without having to randomly guess? That's the thing I worry about most of all. What seems obvious to the designer almost never is to the player.

[boyflea]

What seems obvious to the designer almost never is to the player.

I disagree, but then I would.

The game has been tested lots, but the problem is that there is a big savegame bug in it, so really it should be withdrawn. That and to save my precious, precious ego.... ;

[George Gilbert]

Sorry all. It will change - I'm waiting on a review of the savegame bug by GG before I continue updating this game.

The savegame bug is now fixed for V0.45.

As Parallax thought, the problem was with the hint oracle; in particular when you save the game at the very edge of the hint radius and close to the edge of the dungeon level.

[boyflea]

fantastic - I'll have to make sure the latest version works - cheers George Gilbert.

when I've reviewed it, and fixed the 'players far too powerful' bug, I'll relaunch it.

cheers reviewer-type dudes

[boyflea]

well, I have fixed the key, changed over the bottles to work withthe fountains, still waiting for v0.45 to release it.

the only issue I have left is how to stop the health resotring so fast. there is something in my setup that's causing the characters to recover incredibly quickly...

I have altered the stats and still the regeneration is massive. taking Parallax's advice, I impoorted charactedrs and it still occurs.

I can only think that the game somehow is levelling up your characters automatically somehow... any suggestions? this seems global.

I'll create a new dungeon to test this, but what could I have set to make regenration globally so high?

cheers all.

[boyflea]

AHA! If you set up a creature that attacks bad guys but not the team, SOMEHOW, it will cast helpful spells on the team, regardless where they are in the dungeon.

I had set up the good vexirk to cast heal, and everytime the team were taking hits, for some reason, the vexirk were casting HEAL on them.

Truly a benevolent race.

[boyflea]

Ok all you patient, kind and wonderful people.

I've re-posted my more-stable and more-playable version on my yahoo site.

It is hosted on a yahoo site:-
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dungeo ... r_Archive/



FEATURES:-

1/ You can now import a team and do your own thing.

2/ The good Vexirk are not zapping you with health spells every 5 seconds,

3/ The savegame feature does no longer cause crashes [though have noted it can die a couple of times on the stats screen] - w00t!

4/ The keys are all visible now.

5/ There is a little reward for choosing particular sexes, but nothing major.

6/ The last level is now fixed for those dodgy folk deciding to use the grapple to cheat the level - no more getting stuck on squares!


Anyway, enjoy!

Thanks again for all the feedback - it has made the game betterer. I'm now off to create another DM game.

This scenario is far from perfect, but I hope you appreciate the work that's gone into it and the care taken to make it work.

Cheers to GG for removing my crashes.

[Trantor]

Ok, I just finished this, here is my review:

Gameplay: 6
This is relatively straight-forward, you usually know where to go next, it is similar to DM in linearity, which is fine with me. I had a weird bug (that seems to have been there before) which caused my characters to heal insanely quickly (maybe I just downloaded an outdated version). Apart from that, everything is fine, there are some cool places like the "You will get shocked" room. There could have been some more puzzles, though.

Originality: 8
I really like the story of reuniting two lovers, and the idea of the brown vexirks being the guardians of Lord Seth and then battling his minions in the end was just fantastic!

Difficulty: 2
Due to my health bug, the game was very, very easy - in fact, it was impossible to kill myself once I wanted to reload my savegame! As there are very few puzzles, you usually won't get stuck at all. If this health bug isn't present, the Difficulty rating might get a 5 or 6 from me.

Puzzles: 5
As I said, this is where the dungeon is a bit lacking. Those that are there, like "You will get shocked", are great, though.

Size: 4
I needed 2:07 hours to finish this, with seeing both endings. So it's rather small and straightforward.

Replayability: 5
I think it doesn't matter which of the two lovers you choose, and you can easily see both endings in one go. Still, there are 12 secrets to be found, of which I only found 6. Might be worth another go.

Craft: 7
The behaviour of the brown vexirks is just fantastic. Also, the dungeon features quite a few shortcuts back, which is always a big plus in my book.

Game Ending: 9
One of the endings is very meh, the other is utterly fantastic! The two battling armies are one of the coolest features I have ever seen in any dungeon so far.

Atmosphere: 8
A nice storyline, lots of scrolls and wall texts all make for a very atmospheric experience.

Overall: 7
With a few more puzzles and additional levels, this could easily get an 8 or maybe a 9. As it is, it is a short, linear, easy dungeon with great storyline and atmosphere.

Best part:
The ending with the battling armies.

Worst part:
No single part per se; I will just say I would have liked a few more puzzles.

[boyflea]

wow - thankyou very much.

I wrote this and it was fun to do. Glad you liked it. I've been away form this site about 2 years due to a lot of changes in my life and was looking for inspiration to kickstart some of my old hobbies again - so thanks for you rkind words, I'll see if I can get back into this again.

[Jan]

I've also played this dungeon and I liked it too. As Trantor said, there were many original things and the whole idea of the two lovers and the story around was excellent. So I would definitely like to play another dungeon made by you!

And, yeah - hello, my name is Jan and I'm relatively new here.

[boyflea]

thanks - well I hope the version you played worked and did not have that crazy infinite health bug,

ok, off I go to test out some other maps too - recommendations welcome!