Editor Strikes Back

[Sophia]

Don't expect this one for a while ("when it's done")-- as you can probably tell from the spartan menu and complete lack of interface, there's not much actual editing to be done. However, the display looks nice and I couldn't resist a bit of a tease, so here...

http://www.ojnk.net/dm/dsb/esb.png

If there's anything with RTC Editor and/or CSBuild that you all really like or just can't stand, feel free to post your comments/suggestions/etc., too...

[Parallax]

Well, there is one feature that I would love to see in an editor, and that's the admission that every tile is in fact 9 separate zones: CENTER, NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST plus the four corners.

If I were to make an editor (and let's face it, that's not likely to happen) I would allow for one-click access to each of these zones on every tile. It would help with guesing at the user's intend too, since only a fraction of the objects can exist in a given subpart (no wall item at the center or the corners, for instance.)

The one thing that annoys me most with RTCEditor is that, if I need the same wallitem on two sides of a tile I have to edit both. Even after I copy/paste the first item it still take 6 (six!) clicks to position the second one.

Also, in any kind of lists of items to choose from it would be nice to have either the list sorted in decreasing order of occurances in the current dungeon (so the objects that you've already used most often are at the top) or have some kind of 'preferred' or 'recent' list. That's also one of my pet peeves with RTCEditor that anytime I want a flooritem I have to dig through pages of DM-2 graphics I never use to select it. Usually it is less time-consuming to look through the dungeon for another instance to copy/paste, even if there is other junk on the same tile that needs deleting afterwards.

Oh, and the Editor Strikes Back is indeed looking nice

[ian_scho]

It looks like minesweeper-on-acid at the moment. Still, I bet this will take you a good while to complete. I assume that you will offering the option to be editing LUA inside this editor as well?

Go on, add an 'event' system like in EOB / DMJava.... If you build it, they will come.

[Joramun]

Yay, I totally agree with Parallax ! +1
...Minesweeper-on-acid... Don't give insane puzzle ideas for the dungeon makers.

Some additional features :
+ keyboard and mouse shortcuts for all basic functionalities
+ a button to altern between "wall / tile painting" and "item layout" mode
-> when in either mode, maybe using [\shortcut\+click] does the other mode. (That's when you have small modification and don't want to switch)

+ a pop-down menu for objects, with filters to avoid seing all the list at once.
-> categories based on the "type" or "class" member defined in object.lua

+ [\shortcut\+click] selects an item when in item layout mode.
+ a select mode to select an object/ a ninth of a tile
-> a list of items on the tile selected, to be able to directly select them.
-> selecting an item in this list by a left-click
-> [\shortcut\+click] to select the target field from an item, [\shortcut\+click] to add to the list of targets
-> when creature / chest etc. is selected, another list with carried items where you can put new items as if it was a tile.

+ a character editor in the same vein...
EDIT : (these are not from me)
+ a custom graphics importer (open folder, select image)
+ "whack" inside of DSB

[Sophia]

Well, there is one feature that I would love to see in an editor, and that's the admission that every tile is in fact 9 separate zones: CENTER, NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST plus the four corners.

Well, in DSB, actually, every tile is only 5 zones.

However, I understand your point. I think this is a great idea in theory, but in practice, the click zones required to implement it would be so tiny it may be more frustrating than functional. CSBuild comes close, with the item lists of each tile arranged in a reasonable approximation of how they look on the tile itself. Maybe something along these lines? Or a zoomed-in view of a tile on the side that lets you choose an active zone to work on?

I assume that you will offering the option to be editing LUA inside this editor as well?

No, there are better dedicated Lua editors out there for that.

Go on, add an 'event' system like in EOB / DMJava

A what?
I don't really understand.

a button to altern between "wall / tile painting" and "item layout" mode

Yes, this one is good.
I had already decided I was going to have different modes, because, let's face it, drawing walls is just one of the things that a dungeon designer wants to do, and having the left button do only that all the time is a big waste of functionality (at least to me)

a pop-down menu for objects, with filters to avoid seing all the list at once.
-> categories based on the "type" or "class" member defined in object.lua

I like this one, too.
Combining it with Parallax's suggestion about sorting by usage frequency etc. should hopefully keep the amount of "object list sifting" that has to be done to a minimum... I think the vast majority of wasted time spent in an editor (at least in my RTCed/CSBbuild experience) is spent just looking through a list for the wanted item!

[Parallax]

For the various zones, it's true that the click zones may get a bit small. On the other hand if you're going to have separate modes I wouldn't mind seeing one mode that sets the tile (left button toggles open/close, right button toggles visible/invisible, maybe?) while other modes are used to place wall items, floor items, custom wallsets, and objects (i.e. pickable items and monsters) respectively. This way you can get down to 4 or 5 click zones per tile. Other stuff like hint oracle zones (not quite sure how you plan on doing this, or even IF you plan on doing it) could probably make use of their own mode.

I have reservations about a zoomed-in view of a tile on the side because I don't see how to do it without adding a click to the process of placing an item. Of course, if there is no way to select anything smaller than a tile directly there will have to be a click dedicated in picking the right subpart at some point.

Oh, and here's an additional request: If you are going to include icons in the editor to differenciate between the various items, could the editor generate the icons. I find making icons for custom graphics to be a pure waste of time since the players never actually see them and how pretty they are.

[ian_scho]

Sorry for not explaining what event squares are. I think cowsmanaut et al. explain it better (Plot Screens) than I would though, when explaining the idea in RTC.

[Sophia]

Sorry for not explaining what event squares are. I think cowsmanaut et al. explain it better (Plot Screens) than I would though, when explaining the idea in RTC.

Huh? You did.
Your post is gone because I split the topic, since it wasn't really about the editor any more, but something totally different.
It's now on its own thread called "Event System."

[ian_scho]

Ups, I thought I was just stupid and forgot to push that 'Submit' button, too.... Hence the more brief explanation second time around!