DDM bug report and suggestions...

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:10 pm

Hehe, started with the testing...

I got an "unhandled exception" entering the hp of a skeleton... It happens when ( default ) is not completely erased before entering a number...
I suggest to put 0 (the cypher) as symbolizing the default value, rather than a text.

Well, the editor looks a bit complicated, but mapping is cool

EDIT : deleted my post in the sticky...

Suggestions :
- Right click should lay current selected item.
- Edit mode should be toggled by a keyboard shortcut (like space bar)

Post by **Sophia** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:32 pm

This looks nice

Now people will actually start editing custom dungeons... I'll have to get my act together.

Anyway, I noticed the "Remove" button in the roster editor doesn't work.. I'm not sure if this is a bug or just unimplemented yet.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:02 pm

Hmmm,

About my suggestions :
- Ok, I reviewed item layout a bit more. Overall, it looks cool, the right click to select a tile is ok.
- It definetely need a short cut to toggle edit mode.
- Why let the user specify character id ? it should be generated from firstname. Also it was unclear to me if I had to click "add" character first or first fill all fields...
- It would be cool to have a quick eraser mode : erase last instance on clicked tile. Or maybe it's too dangerous ?

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:15 am

I suggest to put 0 (the cypher) as symbolizing the default value, rather than a text.

My fear with doing that is that people might look at it and wonder why the editor is setting all the monster's HP to 0. I chose a middle ground - if it reads "default" when you click on it to change, it clears it.

Anyway, I noticed the "Remove" button in the roster editor doesn't work.. I'm not sure if this is a bug or just unimplemented yet.

Not unimplemented, just untested. It actually is removing the champion - what it doesn't do is refresh the list. Oops.

I dislike the Roster editor in general. It was the one thing that I kept going back to and throwing out. I just don't like how it works, but I don't know how else to set it up.
Currently, "Add" adds the information you've entered as a champion in the Roster. "Edit" changes the currently selected champion. In other words, if you click a champion in the list and change stats or whatever, it won't save those changes until you click "Edit". The place where that doesn't apply is inventory. Any changes to inventory are immediately stored (this is why that section is grayed out until you actually 'Add' the champion - inventory needs to have someone to be attached to).
I don't like it - it's clunky and unintuitive. It also doesn't do some things it probably should, like capitalizing Name and Title (lowercase letters appear as symbols in DSB).
It doesn't automatically give them Id's because nowhere else is that done. It will if you haven't given them an Id, and use the 'champion' exvar helper to add them to a mirror or something (in which case, it's based on the first name). But I just realized that that helper isn't immediately available (actually, there's about a half a dozen that aren't in the right-click menu).
To use them, you have to double-click the cell next to the one that says "champion". For example, the exvar list looks like this:

Code: Select all

--------------------------------------------
|  champion    |                           |
--------------------------------------------

You'd double-click the empty cell on the right. What helper launches is based on what's in the first (left) square. 'opby' will launch an Archtype picker, 'target' will launch the target finder, any exvar that usually an integer will launch a little number picker, boolean exvars will toggle between 'true' and 'false', etc.

It definetely need a short cut to toggle edit mode.

I agree. If your mouse has a wheel, clicking the wheel toggles it out, but even I find that just annoying.

- It would be cool to have a quick eraser mode : erase last instance on clicked tile. Or maybe it's too dangerous ?

You mean it would delete wherever you click? That might be a little dangerous. How about using the 'Delete' key to do it instead?

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:39 am

RemyR wrote:My fear with doing that is that people might look at it and wonder why the editor is setting all the monster's HP to 0. I chose a middle ground - if it reads "default" when you click on it to change, it clears it.

Yes, but my point was that the editor crashes when I fill this field, because often I don't completely remove the text "( default )" (e.g. the last ')' remains) and IT CRASHES DDM IMMEDIATLY !!

You mean it would delete wherever you click? That might be a little dangerous. How about using the 'Delete' key to do it instead?

Much better ! Delete key for deleting the currently selected instance is nice.

Champion Roster suggestions :
- change the increment/decrement of fields to 10 instead of 100
- apply a reasonable default value to all fields (e.g. Zed's stats in DM)
- have a template character in the roster already defined (?)
- add a "copy" button, to create a copy of the currently selected character

Overall questions and suggestions:
S - hide "id" wherever you can.
S - Implement dsb_msg_chain(id,target) as an 'exvar' of instance 'id', like hitpoints can be an 'exvar' of a monster

Missing - stairsup and down : the destination can be specified by x,y,lev exvars (for devious minds)
-- Note that I might ask Sophia to modify the base code for pits also...
there's no reason to limit this feature to staircases and teleporters
Q - stairs and pits... are you automatically creating the associated ceiling pit/stairsdown/stairsup ?

Bug - Set starting position from level view doesn't seem to work...
Bug - When double clicking on x or y for a teleporter (or anything else) the result of the "help" box is ADDED to the exvar, so doing it multiple times doesn't replace the old destination, but adds one to the list of exvars...

S - show (and manage ? ) targeting by colour arrows...
S - Set target location for stairs, pits and teleporters by a right click in non-edit mode... since left click is used to select the tile anyway. Or by ctrl-click or whatever, if you don't like right click.
S - targeting for messages by a click too ? (might be complicated)
S - Being able to edit an instance position after creating it
S - In non-edit mode, left-click dragging and dropping inside the dungeon view should *move* selected instance to the new tile

S - Add a tree of all dungeon instances by "level" and "class of arch"

S - Allow custom exvars with full text editing (name+value)
I don't know how you store them, so I won't ask to be able to edit any exvar by hand...
I can do that after generating the dungeon anyway

Missing - spin and face exvars for teleporters

Bug - Can't remove any instance (probably after moving around DDM's toolboxes...)

Bug - delay help box call crashes the editor

Note : post heavily edited...

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:31 pm

Okay, there's a new version up, with a few bug fixes, and several of your suggestions.

Code: Select all

v011b
------

*Fixed Location Finder - now overwrites old values 
*Fixed error in Number Picker dialog
*Fixed accidental map editting in various dialog windows
*Fixed float text for 'Show Items' button (main toolbar)
*Fixed a glitch in the pane messenging system
*Fixed a selection glitch in the Archtype Library pane
*Fixed conversion error in monster HP (Instance Properties Pane)
*Fixed Refresh error in Dungeon Info
*Fixed Various glitches and confusion in Roster
*Fixed 'Remove' button in Roster
*Added Roster Export / Import
*Added several keyboard commands to Mapper
	'Delete' - deletes selected instance
	'Space' - toggles Edit Mode
	'Shift+LClick' - adds selected archtype as instance
	'Crtl+LDrag' - Drag-n-drop (Move) instances on a tile

Now, to answer some questions, ask some, and explain a bit.

S - Allow custom exvars with full text editing (name+value)
I don't know how you store them, so I won't ask to be able to edit any exvar by hand...
...
Missing - stairsup and down : the destination can be specified by x,y,lev exvars (for devious minds)
...
Missing - spin and face exvars for teleporters

All of this should already be possible. I posted a quick-guide on some of the basics of adding, editting, and deleting exvars. If there are still problems, let me know.

- apply a reasonable default value to all fields (e.g. Zed's stats in DM)
- have a template character in the roster already defined (?)

Instead of doing this, I added a feature to the File menu to import and export a roster. This was actually already in the code, but I removed it from the menu because of a quirk, which I still haven't fixed, so I'll warn you about it. Champion inventory isn't saved, so it's not included with an import. There's a very esoteric reason why, and I'm working on a solution I think should fix it. That will be done soon, but I wanted this in now because I know how much of a pain it is to have to keep creating a generic character just to test something in the dungeon.
As for the rest of your champion suggestions, most have been implemented ('Copy' was actually already there - you just had to hit 'Add' again - I fixed the button labels). A quick way to edit champion stats, by the way, is to use the keyboard. Tab through the controls, and the up-and-down arrow keys will work with the numerical and drop-down lists.

S - show (and manage ? ) targeting by colour arrows...

This I'd like to do at some point, but because of the way exvars are stored, it'll take some roundabouting.

S - Being able to edit an instance position after creating it
S - In non-edit mode, left-click dragging and dropping inside the dungeon view should *move* selected instance to the new tile

I wrapped these together. You can now drag instances after they've been created. Hold Control and Left Click drag-n-drop (either in or out of Edit Mode - though I suggest out, since the click will still toggle the square).

Q - stairs and pits... are you automatically creating the associated ceiling pit/stairsdown/stairsup ?

Pits - sort of: DDM uses 'spawn_pit', which normally adds the ceiling pit for you. That's why they don't display in the mapper. You can turn this off by using the Ceiling Pit menu (it appears in the Instance Properties Pane when a pit is selected, near the top).
Stairs - No. First, you might not have a level created below yet- in which case the editor would feel compelled to beep at you. I find this distinctly annoying about other editors, and purposely left it out. DDM assumes you know what you're doing. Second, because of exvars, you might not want a staircase directly below. In fact, you might have a completely wierd setup where stairways jump levels, or go sideways, or do all sorts of wacky things. This would mean you'd need to go through and delete all the stairs the editor made. Third, you could have custom stairs, which DDM would likely just ignore.

S - hide "id" wherever you can.

While I realize that thoughshiny little box is very tempting to edit, I'm not removing it. DDM only gives things Ids if the designer hasn't already - it will never overwrite them. As such, this is the only real way to locate a particular instance after the Lua code has been generated (just give the instance an Id after you create it - then you can search the code for it later).

S - Set target location for stairs, pits and teleporters by a right click in non-edit mode... since left click is used to select the tile anyway. Or by ctrl-click or whatever, if you don't like right click.
S - targeting for messages by a click too ? (might be complicated)

The problem here is that the editor really won't know what you're doing. Any instance can have a set of location exvars, so to be fair, it should add those exvars with every click. I'm just not sure how much utility this would add. I'm not shooting it down, I've just got to think about how to do it.

Bug - Can't remove any instance (probably after moving around DDM's toolboxes...)

I think I fixed this, but I don't know. What I fixed was that if one of the toolboxes was closed and then reopened with the View menu, it could become 'disconnected' from the rest of the application. But I'm not sure if that's what you're describing or not. Did it happen when you were just moving them around, or did you close one (the Properties Pane, I'd guess) and then reopen it?

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:58 pm

RemyR wrote:Did it happen when you were just moving them around, or did you close one (the Properties Pane, I'd guess) and then reopen it?

Thanks for the reply ! I was so enthusiastic with your editor, I had to test it straight away !

I detected the bug after several manipulations, closing and opening panels... so basically I closed all panels and reacreated them until I got how the panel glider was working

... and after that I just tried to deleted a misplaced exvar.

Also : you're right about the item 'id', I hadn't thought about it that way

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:50 pm

Thanks for the reply ! I was so enthusiastic with your editor, I had to test it straight away !

Hey, go nuts. I've got the next couple of days off, so I've got lots of free time to fix bugs and make changes.

And, I just realized, I said I put a new version up, but not where - it's in the sticky post, in case anyone was wondering. That's where they'll always be.

*EDIT*
Okay, I just found a rather large garish problem with the last update, so it's been replaced with a new one. If you downloaded DDM in the last, say, 6 hours or so, you'll probably want to delete it, pretend it never existed, and download the newest release.
To make it worth your while, I added multiple message support (that is, a helper to pick multiple messages) to conform with DSB v.21. Also, the thing about champion inventory not being exported and imported has been fixed.
And one last note: the guide to editting exvars has been moved to the DDM sticky at the top of the forum. It probably shouldn't have been down here anyway.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:31 pm

I hadn't seen that you changed DDM again...

PS: The new shift+click and ctrl+click are just great !

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:16 am

Okay, I just found a rather nasty little bug.
Whatever you do, do *NOT* use the DDM Code Editor to open a file. Don't do it - you'll lose the file. I told you it was nasty.
I'll have a fix up in about an hour - I noticed it right in the middle of something else, or it'd be up now.

*Edit*

Okay, the new version is up.

Code: Select all

v015b
------
*Fixed a rather ugly error in Code Editor
*Added Archtype Library Editor
*Added Code Editor (new document)
*Added User Settings
	Mapper Select Color
	Mapper Highlight Color
	Exvar Linebreak Option
	Lua Output Strings

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:09 pm

Typo : staff(claw_x instead of staff_claws_x

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:31 pm

Okay, so, I was going to fix the typo, and discovered another bug. The Archtype Library Editor tool is broken - it adds "blank" exvars when it shouldn't, since those blanks prevent adding the archtype to a dungeon (what's strange is that it just silently fails - it shouldn't...).
Now, I'm going to assume that since no one reported it this weekend, the Library editor isn't getting a whole lot of attention, which means you can all wait a bit for an update, right?
(And, if you have used the AL editor, you can correct it by hand; open up 'archtypes.xml' in the 'config' folder, find your archtype and delete the line that reads "<exvar />".)

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:03 am

Unless someone reports any new bugs, this will be the last update for some time, while DDM is being refactored to integrate Lua.

Code: Select all

v025b (11/08/2007)
-------------------
*Fixed error in Message Picker
*Fixed bug in Archtype Library editor
*Fixed glitch in Archtype Library
*Improvements to Lua syntax file
*Improvements to Mapper redraw
*Added Splash Screen frontloader
*Added Code Editor Toolbar
*Added Save User Layout option
*Added Level Resize offset
*Updated main menus
*Added Location lines
*Added Target lines

Nothing major; some fixes and minor improvements.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:55 am

Just a thought : the location lines don't appear when the corresponding (teleporter) instance is not the last instance on the tile list (e.g. with a blue haze above it) . Would it be difficult to either :
- be able to arrange the order of instances on a tile
- show all lines of all instances on the selected tile

I made a few tests, and the teleporter + item seems to be the only one to act this way... not sure yet

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:05 pm

I have just started goofing around with DDM, barely scratched the surface, but I have found two functionalities I would like that do not seem to be included as of v0.15b

- When I have a level that is larger that the window can display (say, 80x80, for instance) and I click on another panel, when I click back on the dungeon view it centers on the lower right corner of the level, and registers the click after shifting the view, which means it thinks I clicked on a different tile than the tile I clicked on.

- There does not seem to be any way to shift levels along any axis (x, y or z.) x and y may betaken care of with the new

*Added Level Resize offset

feature that I have not seen, but the ability to switch levels would be very nice to have.

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:28 pm

**EDIT (This is a reply to Juramun's error report)**
Fixed - it was such a small change I didn't bother with a new version number.

I should probably make a note about those lines; first, they only go one-way, so selecting the targetted location or instance will not show the lines. Second, for teleporter and similiar lines to appear, a 'lev' exvar has to exist (and it has to match the level being looked at). Usually, you'll probably be using the Location Picker, (which adds it by default) so it won't matter, but it's something to remember. Third, there are four message "types" dicerned by the line drawer - 'M_ACTIVATE', 'M_DEACTIVATE', 'M_TOGGLE', and a default. And fourth, the colors of the lines are adjustable in 'Mapper Settings' under the Tools menu, in case you get tired of the easter egg pastels.

- When I have a level that is larger that the window can display (say, 80x80, for instance) and I click on another panel(...)

Yeah, I know, and I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to mention it. The mapper has scrolling problems with over-sized dungeons - I've kicked around a few possible solutions, but obviously, it's still bugging out.

- There does not seem to be any way to shift levels along any axis (x, y or z.) x and y may betaken care of with the new(...)

Yeah, sort off. You can "push" the dungeon and add rows or columns to the top and left side. I'd like to implement a positional resize (if you've ever used, say, Photoshop, and adjusted the canvas size, you see what I mean), but it's something that continually gets put aside for another day.

And I totally forgot about level-swapping. I'll take a shot at it today.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:11 pm

DDM file : 404 not found !

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:23 pm

Fixed.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:36 pm

I've seen the menu options to add rows and columns from the top and left, respectively, in DDM0.25b, but I have not seen any way to remove rows from the top or columns from the left. Am I missing something?

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:39 am

No, you didn't miss anything - it isn't in there yet. I'm working on it and a few other things, so it may be a bit of time.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:56 pm

No problem, thanks for letting me know so I don't go crazy looking for it

.

Is it safe to assume that any dungeon started with DDM0.25b will be readable by future DDM versions?

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:34 pm

Pretty much yes. If I need to quick-fix DDM .25b because someone finds a serious error, it'll be compatible. The next planned release of DDM might not directly be compatible, but it'll be able to read directly from Lua, so you can just load your dungeons in that way.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:13 pm

After using DDM for a while, here are some things I miss:

_ I'd like to have a copy/paste function to duplicate the contents of tiles (exvar included) quickly.

_ I'd like to see the dungeon coordinates the mouse pointer is hovering over in the dungeon view, not just the coordinates of the selected tile.

_ I'd like to have the doorframe menu close to the door menu. Similarily, I'd like the ceiling pit menu close to the pit menu.

_ The "highlight pits above" and "highlight stairs above" tend to not work right when changing levels with either enabled. I'd like, once you have them fixed, to also have "highlight stairs below" and "highlight ceiling pits below" for us nonlinear builders. The possibility of having more than one of these options active at once would also be nice.

That's all I can think of right now to make DDM even more awesome, but rest assured that I'll chime in again if I think of anything else.

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 am

I'll be putting out a quick-fix version at some point during the week, to cover DSB .26's off-center floor triggers (and to fix a couple of glitches). I'll try to cover your suggestions as well.

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:39 pm

This is a bugfix release -

Code: Select all

v033b (11/27/2007)
--------------------
*Fixed glitch in Lua output for level wallsets
*Fixed memory leak in toolbar swapping
*Fixed various errors in toolbars
*Removed Fireball Editor in favor of a lightweight version
*Add support for pit and stair viewing from level below
*Fixed Floor instances to match DSB v.26
*Various code updates and rearrangements

I added a few things that Parallax asked for, except for the Copy/Paste feature and level resize. It doesn't, as of yet, read Lua.

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:12 am

A quick bugfix is up. There's a scrolling glitch that cropped up when the hover location bit was added. The fix required it to be moved - it's no longer on the toolbar next to buttons, but has been moved down to the status bar at the bottom right.

Also, the Vi Alter was mislabelled in the Archtype Library (it's called 'alcove_vi' in DSB), so that was fixed. While you're old saved files will work with the update Arch Library, the output Lua will be broken unless you either delete all the vi alters in your dungeon and replace them with the new ones, or manually change the code.
Sorry about that.

A couple of other minor fixes, but nothing new added.
Exactly the same link as before.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:39 pm

On the off-chance that Remy still drops by once in a while but only checks this thread. What's the status on DDM? Will there ever be another version. And if not, would it be possible to obtain the source code for it. It's a great program, and I'd hate to see it disappear.

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:23 am

Wow, it's been awhile...

In total honesty, I've just been distracted with a few other things lately. I have been thinking about DDM, though, and whether I'm going to keep adding to it or tear it apart and start another version that incorporates alot of the things that are missing. Like the ability to actually read the base/*.lua files to build up the archtype library and let people edit/add items into their projects. The thing is, the original DDM was supposed to be just for creating the dungeon.lua file, so tht was all it focused on -- adding items, mechanics, etc. were outside it's scope.

I also hit a graphics wall with the speed of .NET 2.0, and was considering moving over to 3.0 for the next build. The problem is that, unlike 2.0, 3.0 isn't nearly as popular on WinXP, so XP users would have to download it from Microsoft to use it.

I'm not against releasing the source code, though, either way. Give me a day or two to clean it up a bit, and I'll throw it up somewhere. If I somehow fall into the void again, at least that will give folks somewhere to start.

By the way, thanks for the comments. Glad someone got some utility out of it.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:37 pm

Oh I do get mileage out of my copy!

I believe it has the potential to be a fantastic editor for DSB (it's just good right now) with a few more functionalities. At the same time, I understand that, with Jo and I falling more or less silent on the topic of DSB and nobody else seemingly interested until Ian_scho started posting about it a few weeks ago, you might have lost interest. It's not fun creating software if there is no user base.

I'm using DDM daily right now. Every evening, I relax after work by expanding my custom dungeon a little bit more. I can see it taking me a year or more before the first release at this pace, but I'm having fun in the meantime. I wish DDM would build its archetype library by reading objects.lua in /base and in the custom dungeon directory, though. That would allow the designer to add new items by hand in their object.lua file, and DDM could then place instances of these custom items in the dungeon, which is really all is required in dungeon.lua.

Anyways, I'm glad to see you're still around!

Post by **Sophia** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:14 pm

Remy wrote:I have been thinking about DDM, though, and whether I'm going to keep adding to it or tear it apart and start another version that incorporates alot of the things that are missing. Like the ability to actually read the base/*.lua files to build up the archtype library and let people edit/add items into their projects.

This, and being able to read a .lua dungeon file directly, would be extremely huge boosts to the usability of DDM.

Right now, the DSB engine is pretty powerful, but editing is still a little bit strained. Don't get me wrong, DDM is a great program! It just suffers from some rather frustrating limitations at the moment.

I'd be happy to contribute code if it'll help, but I'd probably try to steal code from DSB, and I'm not sure how much C code will help you in a C# program.