DM2 dificult ?

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:01 pm

I found a site that explains how to go from a to z in DM2 (lousy cheaters), but what i really found funny is a quote from the Walkthrough:

http://home.student.uva.nl/michael.salt ... ngmas2.htm

This game is so tough that we tried playing without cheating and had
to give up very early on - so we recommend you play first with the
cheat (see the appropriate file) and then attempt it without it.

Anybody here needed a Walkthrough or anything like that to finish the game ?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:12 pm

the ghost you have to pass to get one of the clan keys is a little odd, and it took a bit of thinking to work out about getting the two keys at the end, buit otherwise DM 2 is hysterically easy compared to something like CSB

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:15 pm

You mean the "trader-ghost" ? just put some coin, no matter how low it is, in the table, and it will give the key... of course i didn't know that at the time and tryed everything from Fireballs to running after the guy around the table... * sigh *

Post by **linflas** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:19 pm

beowuuf wrote:otherwise DM 2 is hysterically easy compared to something like CSB

i finished csb several times, i never completed dm2 !

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:21 pm

??????????? you serious ??????????? beowuuf is right, DM2 is way too easy compared to CSB

Post by **linflas** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:25 pm

i just hate dm2

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:29 pm

Why ? its a good all-around dungeon game... music is good and graphics are acceptable

Post by **Lunever** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:40 pm

I also played through DM&CSB many times but never finished DM2, because I think it's boring. Why? Because it is not nearly as cleverly designed as CSB. Look at the CSB-Dungeon, look at it's game mechanics and puzzles! Only an utterly mad and likewise brilliant genius would create such a dungeon. Look at DM2: It has some nice goodies, but it is not nearly as cleverly designed and thus not nearly as intense in game atmosphere.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:00 pm

I tend to agree. It's interesting why this happened though. Based on customer feedback, FTL learned that they pushed the envelope too far with CSB and simply made the game too difficult for the casual gamer. DM2 was a conscious reaction against that, but in the course of making it easier, they ended up not catering for the real hard-core DM players such as Lunever (and the rest of us!).

Also, the AI of the creatures in DM2 is a lot better developed than people think, and is actually pretty sophisticated. FTL spent most of their time on that, and ended up compromising the game because the creatures were smarter than the environment they were placed in. If the map had been more interesting, larger and with more variety, I don't think DM2 would have been quite the critical failure it turned out to be.

The final thing that really killed DM2 in my opinion was the constant generation of minions. In their defence, Doug Bell told me:

"The emphasis change in DM II was that the creatures were the puzzles as much as the dungeon was. So I guess I’d have to say, you need to figure out a strategy to deal with them."

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:52 pm

The trouble with the minions was it was liek a clock you ddn't know you were on. By the time you realised that thye were generating, and generating faster (it seemed) you had already wasted alot of time exploring, or whatever, so by the time you are tyring to play the game proper you are just fighting off minions all the time

It's funny having more realistic/advanced AI with such cartoony graphics. The look of many creatures makes me take them less seriously as a threat, not more. It's a shame a proper DM 3 never came about, with the perfect blend of new they were aimign for, with more concessions to the old, such as feel and complexity of puzzles

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:44 am

hmm..if this guy thinks that DM2 is tough..I'll feel sorry for him when he plays DM without cheating.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:48 am

forget DM, trying to work out CSB DDD!

Post by **linflas** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:06 am

imo, DM2 sucks because of :
- the story and the 'technology' background
- the interface, especially for spell cast
- slowness because of the ugly transition effect
- minions, complicated and unuseful to me : i reached the top of the tower without casting any minion
- the boring music

things i like : new spells, shops, creatures that attack you and can steal your weapons..

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:31 am

monster interractions are nice though - creatures don't necessarily attack you all the time, some are neutral that push you out of their territory only, they can be distracted, they can be pushed and moved so combat doens't have to be static, they do other things besides look around for you (like the head vexirk recharging his staff, the dragons that collect your arrows, etc)

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:08 am

It's funny. . . all the things linflas hates about DM2, I loved. Ironic, I guess.

Post by **linflas** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:39 am

not

and i forgot to mention that i only played dm2 with cheats, and i never met dragoth !

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:08 pm

I got all the way to the end in about 2 weeks. I just kept falling off the mystical plane thing.. and the demon is so bloody tough.. it's more like hand eye coordination and run the *#$% away fast than using your brain to kill him. I finally got pissed off and shut off the game and never completed it. As far as I'm concerned figuring out how to work the mirrors and get there in the first place.. was my ending.. I opened the portal and went through.. then end.

CSB I didn't find too hard.. but I played it over about the course of a week with my buddy and we figured out a lot of the puzzles together.. though I missed a few small parts because he was staying over and he woke earlier than me and went immediately to the computer..

Post by **PaulH** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:21 pm

I found DM2 incredibly easy, but enjoyable too. Levels were gained far too quickly, and once you started slaying axemen the shops were a bit of a joke. I suppose the killing Dragoth was a good challenge mind, but I finished the game in about 6 hours.

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:00 am

Dungeon Master II was an amazing acomplishment in my eyes. I had a demo on my Descent CD and I played it to death. I later saw it in a closeout for $15 (Mac version) and I bought it with some of my and my brother's allowance. We loved it. Took us several years on and off to beat it. I have decided that the Mac verision is best because: it has th same graphics as the PC version, it has no glitches that the PC version has, and it runs under the most current operating system OS X in Classic mode with full sound and full speed right out of the box.

I loved the spell interface because I really didn't get it. I saw the pictures but I really didn't know what they meant. I discovered most of the spells by guessing. So I didn't think that feature made the game easier.

The soundtrack is amazing. It scared me so much. The music blends perfectly and makes you panic when combined with enemies that pop up out of nowhere.

True, the puzzles are not hard at all. But modern gamers have no patience or skill (try playing Pac Man against anyone under the age of 21) and wouldn't be able to deal with cleverly designed traps.

ParuNexus · Post by **ParuNexus** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:54 am

heh i alway's tohught STONEkeep was a better DM then skullkeep. but yes DM2 is one the easist games. forget aobut the minions and free money\suplies you would have an easier time playing DM2 with one character then playing DM or CSB with 4.

Post by **Ian Clark** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:31 pm

I downloaded it again the other day. Finished it in a couple of hours. Well now my memory is refreshed, here is what I think:

Good
- The creatures. I like the way they won't always attack you i.e. the wolves. Also, they run to dodge your fireballs. The thief was quite funny and Dru-tan was a great battle.
- Shops. You can buy some pretty good gear for your party, finding stuff then selling it was quite cool too.
- The corridoor with the eyes in it
- The magic maps
- The Numenstaff. It can be charged over and over again. Also, if you sidestep after the first fireball, the second and third hit your destination square. I thought that was quite cool

BAD
- Minions, very annoying and not much use to my party. Bring back Beholders, I say

- It's far too slow!!!
- Dragoth was hysterically easy. All I did was walk round him and use my swords
- Potion names (using the symbol rather than the name) etc
- Although I like shops, if you pick up enough axes, mushrooms, flowers etc, you practically have unlimited money, it is possible to get some pretty good gear even before you enter the keep. It would have been better to have put more money in the keep

Well, that's my two cents anyway

somemale · Post by **somemale** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:48 am

do you guys think this game is harder then the original DM?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:27 am

No, easier I think

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:59 am

Depends on - DM1 has a bit of rather easy introductionary levels, and then increases continously in difficulty, with an overally rather linear progeression in regard to dungeon descent, with only a couple of exceptions.

DM2 seems to be bigger at a first glance, but its just space containing not that many riddles, while DM1 consists of a more tightly packed series of riddles and challenges. Not long after beginning DM2 you encounter a couple of monsters (thorn demons) that may frustrate players not yet familar with common DM tactics (circle-wise hit-and-run), but all in all DM2 is not that difficult. The countryside has little to offer, and the castle skulkeep has a nice overall idea for a puzzle concept, but is tiny compared to the DM1 or CSB dungeon. So while you have quite a while to figure out how to get through all of the DM1 puzzles and at the end absulutely enjoy having beaten Lord Chaos for the first time, DM2 is entertaining for a short while, and then you are finished with the dissatisfying feeling that there should be more to this game, especially to castle skullkeep.

I never played through original DM2 because it was not compatible to DM1/CSB and because it forced that unnerving double-step. However, I did enjoy playing through DM2 in the RTC engine.

somemale · Post by **somemale** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:04 am

Thanks for this in-depth reply Lunever!

I finished DM1 many times, but have never got around to finishing DM2 ( I think I got bored halfway) However now that its on RTC and I have some spare time these days, i'm going to take a shot at it!

Lunever wrote:Depends on - DM1 has a bit of rather easy introductionary levels, and then increases continously in difficulty, with an overally rather linear progeression in regard to dungeon descent, with only a couple of exceptions.

DM2 seems to be bigger at a first glance, but its just space containing not that many riddles, while DM1 consists of a more tightly packed series of riddles and challenges. Not long after beginning DM2 you encounter a couple of monsters (thorn demons) that may frustrate players not yet familar with common DM tactics (circle-wise hit-and-run), but all in all DM2 is not that difficult. The countryside has little to offer, and the castle skulkeep has a nice overall idea for a puzzle concept, but is tiny compared to the DM1 or CSB dungeon. So while you have quite a while to figure out how to get through all of the DM1 puzzles and at the end absulutely enjoy having beaten Lord Chaos for the first time, DM2 is entertaining for a short while, and then you are finished with the dissatisfying feeling that there should be more to this game, especially to castle skullkeep.

I never played through original DM2 because it was not compatible to DM1/CSB and because it forced that unnerving double-step. However, I did enjoy playing through DM2 in the RTC engine.