Which DM version and how?!

zzbrowdyzz · Post by **zzbrowdyzz** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:56 pm

Hi chaps, I'm looking to download DM and CSB for use with my Windows Vista PC. I see there seems to be a few versions to choose from. wondered if somecan give me the best options please.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:04 pm

CSBwin or DSB for most like DM/CSB, RTC for some nice twists to the engine

CSBwin and RTC have the easiest editors if you are looking to make dungeons (CSBwin easier to make advanced mechanics), RTC the easiest to create much improved graphics for, DSB the most flexible

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:54 am

You might want to try dm java =) Its older classic feel and is really enjoyable to use.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:02 pm

Older classic feel? It's more updated than RTC! The experience and poison models might make it too dis-similar to original DM/CSB for it to be enjoyable right off the bat, but has lots of nice features so definitely give it a try too.

The default dungeon is not something for you to probably jump in to as it's quite challenging, but the DM and CSB dungeons were made for it.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:57 am

beowuuf wrote: The default dungeon is not something for you to probably jump in to as it's quite challenging(...)

definitely..you will most certainly starve to death or die of poison. My champions did..

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:37 pm

Nothing is more annoying then being middle of a dungeon and running out of food, or worse yet water. Poison is also horrible.

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:11 pm

DMJ as a feature I don't really like. If you don't have the 'original dm' flag set, it ages food. This reduces the food value that an edible object has.

Minor spoiler below:

Spoiler

HOWEVER this only occurs if the object is in specific place:
* In either hand.
* In PC's pack.

So put your food in chests or pouches. Or leave it on the ground to be collected later.

Also note that when a food item reaches a minimum value, it stops decreasing its food value and makes it slightly poisonous. So don't forget those purify spells.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:14 pm

Roquen, I didn't know that, thats kinda neat actually.

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:48 pm

That's mainly what I don't like about it....it's not documented and player's don't know. And since they don't know they don't manage their food properly. I actually think it would be really cool if it were pushed further. Such as cheese, apples and 'fresh meat' really shouldn't lose their quality at the same rate...or 'how' they become poisionous. And being able to use spell it fix-up your slightly off food items.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:53 pm

Cheese & meat would spoil alot quicker than corn, or bread so that would be a good idea about diffrent decay rates.
A spell to "refresh" the food's decay rate back to 0 would also be good. I do like that food decays though, its kinda neat, no wonder my characters starved in the dungeon, i just held onto the food till i really needed it =p

zzbrowdyzz · Post by **zzbrowdyzz** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:19 pm

Great, thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll just go for an original style version first up, and progress on from there?
Whats the best link, and version to use for my PC?
Thanks.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:24 pm

If you want to go as closely to the original as possible, then you should play CSBWin. You can find it here:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851
Scroll down a bit and you will find a version with the original DM dungeon if that is what you are after. The game is a direct translation from the original Atari ST code. Note that this means that you will not hear any monster steps, as those were not present in the ST version. If that annoys you (like it does me, being an Amiga kid), then you could try Return to Chaos. Download that one from here:
http://www.ragingmole.com/RTC/
RTC was re-created from scratch. It looks and sounds exactly like the original, but there are a few minor gameplay differences (like experience gained, damage formulas etc.), but if you haven't played the original for a while, you will hardly notice them.

I guess that DSB is a clone that works exactly like the original game and features all the monster steps, but I am not sure if the original DM dungeon is actually implemented or if it works correctly. If you feel like trying it out, go here:
http://www.ojnk.net/dm/dsb/

Also, take a look at the corresponding sub-forums on this very site. Much is explained there.

Toni Y · Post by **Toni Y** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:04 am

Broken_Paladin wrote:Cheese & meat would spoil alot quicker than corn, or bread so that would be a good idea about diffrent decay rates.

Quite the other way around actually. Fresh produce is hard to keep from spoiling, especially in places like a damp dungeon, so corn and apples would go out pretty quickly. Same goes for the soft kind of bread DM has.

Cheese on the other hand was very long lasting foodstuff back in the days of no refrigeration. It's already soured, curdled and then "spoiled" controllably with benign bacteria and fungi, so it's no longer micro organism friendly. It used to be kept as travel food and stored in case of bad times.

Dried, salted and cured meats are also great for storing. Though again, not the drumsticks and big fat juicy steaks DM has...

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:42 am

Bah, how do you know how long it takes for dragon meat to go off?

zzbrowdyzz · Post by **zzbrowdyzz** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:53 pm

Great, thanks for the links and help. I never really played it enough back in the days, but the memories were enough to bring me back, so most of it is relatively new to me

I downloaded RTC and I am having a great game. Currently level 10 or so. "twisted humor"
just been owned by loads of beholders...

I took some advice and tried taking just 2 champions, Boris and Stamm.
Not been bothered training too much, but their pretty powerfull now Boris even quite handy with the Axe and Stamm also casting fireballs and potions!

Probably give Chaos a crack next...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:59 pm

Yes, that sounds like level 10. Have fun, the last levels are the best!

Great to see a new soul enjoying DM!

Chaos strikes back is very evil, very hard, very chaotic. It's a fantastic game, but it can be frustrating. You need a lot of patience for that. If you have that, please give it a try - it's a wonderful game once you get the hang of it, probably even better than DM.

Post by **Lunever** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:43 pm

Well, I haven't had the time to really get into DSB yet, so I'll only say something about CSBWin and RTC.

Like other people already pointed out, CSBWin is directly taken from the Atari code, so it is in every aspect as true as possible to the original. It features a good editor, and there are a couple of mods out there. However, you definitely should use the mods with the CSBWin version they have been created with.

I mainly played RTC. There ist one feature in it i really like very much. Usually you can import any characters from any savegame into any dungeon for a new game. If your characters are to powerful for that dungeon, the engine will upgrade its monsters automatically.
RTC features by default DM1, CSB and even DM2 (albeit with a rather CSB based engine). Best of FTL in a way. The drawback is, while it very much looks like original FTL, it is created from the scratch by memories and a lot of playtesting, so many mechanisms do not work internally as ingenious as the original FTL ones did. On the other hand then, you need to know DM/CSB very intimately to even notice the difference. Most people, even most old-school DM-nuts won't be able to see the difference upon playing through a couple of times.
RTC does have a good editor too. It tries to be backward compatible, but actually, older mods often only work properly with the version they've been created with, so if you like mods, you might want to keep a couple of older releases, which won't import characters from newer releases.
the DM2 part of RTC does not feature that silly double-scroll-step behaviour of original FTL-DM2, so actually it's more fun to play through than the original.