Not Just Nostalgia!

[oh_brother]

I was very excited to find the DM forum, and knew I would definitely play the games again. But I have to admit a part of me was a little bit worried. I thought "maybe I start playing, am bowled over by nostalgia, but then after a few levels that wears off, and I abandon my game and find something else to do" (I hope that was appropriate use of quotation marks, I saw some old threads where pretty strict guidelines were laid down ).

But I have got completely hooked again. This game, despite its age, still has amazing playability.

1) The magic system in my opinion is the best I have used in an RPG. The use of syllables means that you can experiment to try and find new spells (and who hasn't?). For instance the first time I discovered the 'see-through walls' spell I thought I had blown a hole in the wall and promptly tried to walk through. The fact that you chose the power of spells, and you also have the variables mana and amount of skill/practise rally sets it apart, even today.

2) The designers really tried to make a great experience by anticipating your moves and giving you regular shocks (I mentioned some of these in previous posts). It does not feel like a regular dungeon, it feels like Lord Chaos is messing with your head.

3) You did not know what most of the equipment did, you just put on whatever armour you thought was best. This added to the character, and reduced the tendency towards power-play.

4) The graphics don't look that bad today, meaning they were amazing in 1987.

And it even got a bit better than when I was a child, on my Core 2 duo processor has zero load times compared to the aeons it took on my 512k ST! I think even someone who never played the game before could really get into it all these years later.

So in summary I am hooked, and even though I don't have much time for playing I made it to level 9 already. Roll on Lord Chaos, and then maybe I finally slay my childhood bugbear and finish CSB!

[Narjhan]

I was very excited to find the DM forum, and knew I would definitely play the games again. But I have to admit a part of me was a little bit worried. I thought "maybe I start playing, am bowled over by nostalgia, but then after a few levels that wears off, and I abandon my game and find something else to do" (I hope that was appropriate use of quotation marks, I saw some old threads where pretty strict guidelines were laid down ).

But I have got completely hooked again. This game, despite its age, still has amazing playability.

1) The magic system in my opinion is the best I have used in an RPG. The use of syllables means that you can experiment to try and find new spells (and who hasn't?). For instance the first time I discovered the 'see-through walls' spell I thought I had blown a hole in the wall and promptly tried to walk through. The fact that you chose the power of spells, and you also have the variables mana and amount of skill/practise rally sets it apart, even today.

2) The designers really tried to make a great experience by anticipating your moves and giving you regular shocks (I mentioned some of these in previous posts). It does not feel like a regular dungeon, it feels like Lord Chaos is messing with your head.

3) You did not know what most of the equipment did, you just put on whatever armour you thought was best. This added to the character, and reduced the tendency towards power-play.

4) The graphics don't look that bad today, meaning they were amazing in 1987.

And it even got a bit better than when I was a child, on my Core 2 duo processor has zero load times compared to the aeons it took on my 512k ST! I think even someone who never played the game before could really get into it all these years later.

So in summary I am hooked, and even though I don't have much time for playing I made it to level 9 already. Roll on Lord Chaos, and then maybe I finally slay my childhood bugbear and finish CSB!

1. Da magic r0xXorZzzz !! Really, I cant agree more with you. Innovative and intuitive system.
2. Agree as well.
3. Before Internet and the DM encyclopedia, I didnt have a clue about 3/4 of the items i think I just thought that if it was hard to get, it was certainly good to wear
4. Good thing for me by then, the graphics were better on the Amiga

[beowuuf]

It is still remarkable. The spell system is fun, experimenting draws you in. Like being able to say 'wait, if I use the rune for fire, and the rune for flying, then....WOOHOO, FIREBALL!' is pretty engaging.

I always say they had the interface well realised, the dungeon view is as wide as possible and the interface is so clean you just feel drawn into the world. So the graphics still seem good - you are emersed in an 8-bit world, nothing throws you out of it.

And yes, hiding the number crunching has so many benefits. It removes a step from you and the game so you can get into it better (you swing a sword, you don't swing a +1 sword for d8 piercing damage). And like you say, it means you have to intuit what something is doing. Is the gem of ages magical or just decorative? Is the cool armour of darc better or worse than the cool armour of lyte. Which is better, diamond edge or inquisitor?

It personalised the game and again you are pulled in, figuring things out for yourself and putting your spin on it, not having them explained to you and handed to you to push you out of the experience.


Good luck with the continued play and CSB!

[oh_brother]

4. Good thing for me by then, the graphics were better on the Amiga

I won't argue with you on that one...a friend of mine had an Amiga and secretly I was jealous of the 1 MB of RAM.....of course I would never admit it. I better stop now before I am banned for going off topic.

Seems everyone agrees that the spell system is amazing, I wonder how they managed to come up with it, instead of just going for a bog standard D&D spell system. The only game that comes close is Legend (by Mindscape).

you just feel drawn into the world.

True, whether that is because of the interface, characters, spell system or dungeon layout, this must be the reason we are still playing it 20 years on.

[Jan]

True, whether that is because of the interface, characters, spell system or dungeon layout, this must be the reason we are still playing it 20 years on.

Or simply because the atmosphere of the game swallows you as Moby-Dick.

[Gambit37]

Seems everyone agrees that the spell system is amazing, I wonder how they managed to come up with it, instead of just going for a bog standard D&D spell system. The only game that comes close is Legend (by Mindscape).

The basis of magic system was originally invented by Andy Jaros for his own RPG -- was a big D&D gamer before joining FTL. It was refined while being re-developed for Dungeon Master. I have some notes on this somewhere...

[andilist]

Hello oh_brother,

...a friend of mine had an Amiga and secretly I was jealous of the 1 MB of RAM...

I had an AMIGA too and I bought a version of Dungeon Master which contained the 1 MB RAM extension. I know it like I bought it just yesterday.

In the meantime my amiga is gone.

Sorry for "Off Topic" too.

Kind regards,

Andi

[oh_brother]

I had an AMIGA too and I bought a version of Dungeon Master which contained the 1 MB RAM extension. I know it like I bought it just yesterday.

I never saw the 1MB version of Dungeon Master, actually I am glad in case it ruined the enjoyment of playing on my ST! That happened when I played Populous 2 on the Amiga... But CSBwin is almost exactly the same as the ST version I played (unless my memory is playing tricks).

The basis of magic system was originally invented by Andy Jaros for his own RPG -- was a big D&D gamer before joining FTL. It was refined while being re-developed for Dungeon Master.

Well he certainly strayed very far from his D&D routes, so much more innovative and fun.

[Narjhan]

I had an AMIGA too and I bought a version of Dungeon Master which contained the 1 MB RAM extension. I know it like I bought it just yesterday.

I never saw the 1MB version of Dungeon Master, actually I am glad in case it ruined the enjoyment of playing on my ST! That happened when I played Populous 2 on the Amiga... But CSBwin is almost exactly the same as the ST version I played (unless my memory is playing tricks).

The basis of magic system was originally invented by Andy Jaros for his own RPG -- was a big D&D gamer before joining FTL. It was refined while being re-developed for Dungeon Master.

Well he certainly strayed very far from his D&D routes, so much more innovative and fun.

Yeah that reminds me the first time I played Eye of the Beholder: I was like, wtf, bring me back my DM runes !!! I dont want no goddam sleepingtolearnspells things

[andilist]

Yeah that reminds me the first time I played Eye of the Beholder

EoB was great!!

Kind regards,

Andi

[oh_brother]

EoB was great!!

I was just annoyed it did not come out on the ST, that was the beginning of the end for my beloved machine.

[Trantor]

I agree with practically everything you said oh_brother. But what I find even more amazing than the magic system is the experience system. No "hack monster for x experience points, go up a level in your class once you reach value y". How the hell does a wizard gain experience if his fighter buddy is hacking at things while the wizard is just standing there watching? In DM, each character gains experience via his/her own actions, depending on these actions. I don't think any other game did this before, and too few did it afterwards.

Oh, and regarding the Amiga/ST debate: There was only one Amiga version of DM, and it needed 1 MB RAM. A 512 KB version was announced, but eventually cancelled. Graphically, the Amiga and ST versions are almost identical, only the cursor isn't blue all the time (the hand looks like a real hand and the pointer is yellow instead of blue). The real addition of the Amiga version is the added sound effects when monsters move, which add a lot to the atmosphere in my opinion (yes, I was an Amiga kid ).

[Gambit37]

Don't forget that the Amiga version was the first one with directional stereo sound.

[Jan]

Don't forget that the Atari version was the first one.