Help wanted with DM Tribute

[Rasmus]

beowuuf:
Yeah, those two to the upper left seems to be the favourite, but I need more votes before I decide. Maybe I should add a screenshot on how it looks when the inventory is open.

[linflas]

When I first created the game I had the right mousebutton for releasing the mouse, this made several options alot easyer. But as you navigate with the mouse you can't turn the view, it was really annoying and destoyed the game feeling, so I can't release the mouse unless a really good plan comes along with it

i tried also to make a 3D clone years ago, that turning problem was easy to fix : Q and E are for turning (not 90 degrees of course), A and D for straffing.
that was quite strange at first but as DM player, when using it for several minutes, i found it quite intuitive.

[Rasmus]

If this would work, it would help alot. I might put it in as an option, but it would be some work because I would have too redesign the game so that the player can have some use of the mouse again. Another positive thing with this is that the spells and actions will have more DM feeling.
I will wait programming this until all you guys tried out the beta, so that you can try out the system as it is now.
If enough people miss the old layout I will give it shoot

[Rasmus]

I have a little problem with Chaos, I have just created and are figthing him, the thing is that it is imposible too kill him with the combination of fluxcage and fuseing when the enviorment is in 3D. I need some sugestions here, should I give him HP and kill him as any other creature? But then the firestaff is useless :S

I might calibrate the flux/fuse so it does work, but it seems a little bit of fighting him with this technic when it is in 3D :S

[beowuuf]

Can you attach fluxcages to him, making them a part circle shape instead? So that he could have one attached to his front, two on the sides, and one on the rear, and in that state he can be fused?

Obviously whereasa now the fluxcages are mobile instead of static, I assume Chaos is harder to run around and attack on his sides and rear (oh er) so this might balance out.

Just tweak the fade time of the fluxcages to be difficult but not impossible to attach to him on four sides, and that might be the way?

[ian_scho]

Can you attach fluxcages to him, making them a part circle shape instead? So that he could have one attached to his front, two on the sides, and one on the rear, and in that state he can be fused?

Obviously whereasa now the fluxcages are mobile instead of static, I assume Chaos is harder to run around and attack on his sides and rear (oh er) so this might balance out.

Just tweak the fade time of the fluxcages to be difficult but not impossible to attach to him on four sides, and that might be the way?

So 'attaching' a flux cage to him is an idea, but it disappears if the champions move too far away from him to be able to fuse him.

Yeah, instead of a flux cage (or as well as) you could put a huge circular rune on the floor and if he steps out of that it disappears.

[Rasmus]

Thank you for your ideas beowuuf and ian_scho.

Ian if you mean that he is fuseable as long as he is inside the circle then he might be too easy to kill, only a quick combo would be enough. A little twist on that idea is if he is unprotected inside the circle so that any character could attack him, then all the character would come to use.
But I think I am gonna go with beowuufs idea, it is more classic and I think all the DM fans would like that I didn't change it too much.

[Bit]

I do like beowuufs idea too. As replacement for the missing feature that he can step out of the fluxcage, it could be added that every character has to use the firestaff once to add his personal color on one side.
Then again, this implies that all characters have to stay alive. At least until each one released his/her 'side' - whereby it would be another idea that the color fades again if the character dies - and then, this could be enhanced that the firestaff gets another power: immediate resurrection, so it's guaranteed, that all four champions are alive when Chaos is beaten. But what's with our solo players then...?! Surely worth a discussion if that version should work with four characters only (because this surely forces a lot of character management which is simplified with a lesser number) - or if it should be reducable to a FPS.

[Rasmus]

DMT is programmed so that you can choose 1-4 characters and finish the game with them, I really don't want to change this option because then it wouldn't be Dungeon Master style
Another problem with changing who holds the firestaff is that it is a little bit harder to repositon items in hands in DMT than in DM, this because you have to enter the inventory to release the mousepointer.
Immediate resurrection makes the team invincible to all creatures, so I can't see who that would work either :S
Sorry that I am so hard against your ideas, but I prefer to make the game as simple and as DM stylish as posible

But what do you think of if I do as Beowuuf suggested, but when I fuse him, I don't kill him. Only hurts him, so that I have to repeat the procedure several times to kill him.

I also have a question on how the firestaff works against other monsters, does it have any effect or is this only against Chaos?
And also, does the fluxcage stop missiles and spells? I don't remeber :S

[Ameena]

As far as I know, a Fluxcage is just a graphical effect that doesn't do anything, except for the fact that Lord Chaos, if I remember rightly, won't walk through one, or something. The Fuse option creates an effect-cloud identical to that of when you cast Open Door or Harm Non-Material Being, but I don't think it actually has any effect except when you're actually performing the final Fuse on Lord Chaos, in which case, of course, it triggers the game ending.
And of course, Invoke just seems to cast a random spell from several possible ones.

[beowuuf]

Actually, in DM the fuse option dispelled just as the DES EW spell, though not sure if this was a deliberate choice of a shortcut / bug:)

[Rasmus]

That's interesting...
If we turn it around, is it possible to fuse chaos with DES EW?

[beowuuf]

Never been tried! Don't reckon so, but no harm in trying at some point!

[beowuuf]

Answer - nope!

[Rasmus]

Ahh, that was fast. Thank you for your help

[beowuuf]

Have a CSBuild with DM dungeon open for the D&D game, quick enough to edit a chaos test into the dungeon

[Rasmus]

You know beowuuf, this chaos fluxcage technique you suggested reminds me of zelda to n64 or Gamecube. All the bosses there can't just be killed with the sword, you always have to do some other hidden stuff first to make them vulnerable, then you can strike them. And if you do the hole combination about 3 - 4 times you kill the boss

[beowuuf]

Yeha, I'm not sure about doing the cage multiple times, it might get people used to DM feeling cheated once thye've done it the first time.

You could perhaps pull an added quirk from the DMJava game and also the suggestion about about an area where he must be fuised.

Perhaps the first time he is fused with the fluxcages around him, it sticks. After that, you need to be able to pure him through a difficult area to a seal, and once he stands on that seal you fuse him again, completing the process.

Or perhaps you need to create Lord Order too, and fuse them both

[Rasmus]

Or perhaps you need to create Lord Order too, and fuse them both

Haha, and when lord gray appears, you fuse him right in his thank you speech, then the game will make no sense

But seriosly, I have been thinking about creating lord order to, and that he appears after fusing chaos. Maybe he will have some abilities that chaos lacks

[beowuuf]

Giant fireballs that kill you!

[Rasmus]

The chaos I have created have the ability to push the party away from him when they get to close.
But as lord order he should cast "light spells" or something like that. Any sugestions?

[beowuuf]

Freezing them on the spot? Seems the opposite approach Also pretty evil!

[Rasmus]

That can work, but should he cast an icebolt, or casting an expanding icecircle area? I can also replace the regular "poison, fire, lightning" spells with something else. Maybe spells I can insert in the harder replaymode for our party to learn

[Bit]

Fluxcage doesn't stop missiles or affects anything other, just Lord Chaos avoids those squares.
And I think that Fuse has the only effect to end the game.

In my clone Lord Chaos did cast something with the graphical effect of the fuse spell on the party - I have no idea what this is good for.

[Sophia]

In my clone Lord Chaos did cast something with the graphical effect of the fuse spell on the party - I have no idea what this is good for.

They're probably zo spells. Lord Chaos, Materializers, and Vexirks seem to throw them about randomly.

[Rasmus]

They're probably zo spells. Lord Chaos, Materializers, and Vexirks seem to throw them about randomly.

Yeah, that have made me a bit annoyed. If there are no doors to open, why cast them? I mean, the creature knows when the party are in the same line of squares, then why can't they also know when a door is in the way :S

[Ameena]

Maybe they're too busy thinking "Ohh, crap, it's that bloody party of adventurers! Shit, quick, quick, cast random spell, yaarrrghgh" in their equivalent of the "throw everything including your dead party member's underwear at something" .

[Rasmus]

Maybe they're too busy thinking "Ohh, crap, it's that bloody party of adventurers! Shit, quick, quick, cast random spell, yaarrrghgh" in their equivalent of the "throw everything including your dead party member's underwear at something" .

Didn't think of that. This proves that the FTL team really put alot of effort creating this game, they included questions like "What would you do if you know that you are going to die?" with answers like "I would Panic and act unreasonable!". They was only lucky to be able to create creatures with the worlds most advanced AI with the line:
if (rand() % 2) CastZO(); else CastFulIr();