Dungeon Master Forum

I'm wanting to say "go for the stone arrows" but that's just me

egyptian is a good choice, a little older than the picture maybe.
i penciled a falchion, 190x40 sized with the background you posted.


EDIT : i just realised that my falchion is super-high-res version. you have to half-size it.

Hope this is not too long: Nice scimitar, btw:)

cowsmanaut wrote:Keep in mind Zoom that an interface is not 100% purpose.

ok, I did not know that. But what is the purpose then?
Will there be a dialogue-field?
will there be some extras, not seen in original Dungeon master? If there is 2 weapon fighting, the interface should support this.
Plans for something which improves projectile- handling(boring collecting over and over)

Will there be -not seen yet- quick buttons for the attacks ?
(i.e. a cleave icon on screen that you press and the champion would execute this attack.
This way you could invoke an amulet´s action(currently there is nothing like that) or a ring´s action(currently is, like eye of time but not with a weapon in hand).
each champion would have the 3 basic icons for the 3 basic weapon attacks(main hand) then additonal racial attack - icons, maybe a dragon breath or light spell for elf and so on...
but I do think this would be too much to implement..Nevertheless fun to think about and where to place it.

To go further, I have thought about a radial spell menu, easily accessible from all sides and fast; but
I honestly do not know if it all is even worth the effort for this endeavour here,
since
- my initial question: what is the purpose here, what are you/all trying to accomplish

-->A) re-do the old graphics and not change position,placement, size or functions of on screen elements i.e. no experiments

-->B) complete rework of everything to a certain extend. New features
like a minimap or place where to put compass in (center above viewport frame, not a hand).
Or having an animated magic torch spell icon to indicate that this spell has been cast and is still going , like in bards tale
mini-map...what else?? there are possibilities , people !!!

cowsmanaut wrote:Identify a time period, technology, materials, etc that fit in the world and follow that through in the interface.

what world are you talking about?
If it is the DM-universe then it may be that we have a different "view" of it?

I mean you could make the interface/portraits and borders more like steampunk,(dm2 went there slightly, but steampunk is a large field), conan-the barbarian like, wiz7-like(laser sabres), or or or..
If I get you correctly here, maybe I misunderstood..
--------------------------------
My point is : each custom dungeon may have another setting, very likely .
THen the interface should be as neutral as possible(work with each and every custom dungeon to come, even sci-fi ones)

cowsmanaut wrote:The portraits were based on old paintings. I went and looked at some old paintings and tried to follow that style.

You succeeded very well!The portrait looks amazing, really !
I am just not sure if these represent "my" champions
(e.g. nabi has a blue shirt and if that is not there, it simply ain´t my nabi anymore). Even with one or the other dm2 champions I do have issues!!

cowsmanaut wrote:I felt they were a good fit here because of the era that DM is set in. If the clothing items match that time, why not the portraits?

hmm, you could have a point there... If all the game would look alike (from period xy) then it would be acceptable as a whole. But very specific looking.(edit: try oval/round portraits)

To be honest I would prefer something less heavy for dungoen master, not this mood/ darker setting If you get me ?
(if you go more towards steampunk with dsb, then by all means go for it It would work imo. STeampunk for me is a bit sadness and all in all this blends to a good mixture!)
In the end it´s all i like that or I prefer this.
We could go on for ages and come to no divisor, because I cannot really bring any firm foundation to my feelings about this matter.
I like the cuter look of dm snes version, for example. I also like wiz6 snes- version.
I want to identify with the champions, they should be cool, badass or strong , powerful, beautiful, defiant or smart,
mysterious or alien and so on however silly this may sound.
Please not "normal", exceptional

cowsmanaut wrote: Why should it all be hip and new in the portrait and yet be set in an older time.. I don't think that fits at all.. and I'm really not a fan of it.

there are reasons for and against it. In the end it only has to work !

cowsmanaut wrote: The furthest I'll go is a steampunk retro tech sort of deal which already fits a bit with the DM universe.

Steampunk is what I thought would fit for the portrait.(my second thought!!)
A dystopia or something like that. Setting would play a great role there. Magic less abundant... a world in distress.
Again, while it would work - probably well- I would go for something more generic

I could probably try to make some creatures. Never really went that far , but I have some concepts in stock.
While there is still a long road to go from there, it would be a start.

ok, let me first start of with Linflas and then I'll try to make an intelligent response for Zoom

Linflas, sword is great, I had to do some colour/contrast adjustment and add a small shadow but otherwise it fits perfect.

Zoom,

first point: This interface change is both to increase the resolution of the graphics to at least 640x480, and to make sure that the graphics and interface are unique enough to remove copyright allowing for free distribution of them and DSB to the community without fear of stepping on FTLs toes. This didn't require a whole lot of movement of interface elements, but subtle changes were worth doing to allow it to be unique enough from the DM original.

beyond that, I've got a set of dungeon graphics which are seen in the above image which are close to DM, but again are up res, and unique. They contain a certain colour scheme, mood, and setting. The desire I have for this set is to be able to play both DM and CSB maps with the updated graphics. After that, if others wish to use them for their own dungeons, then they are free to do so, as long as they don't charge money for it.

As to your view of the DM world, I'm not sure how far off you can get from a game which is, in it's first two iterations, highly based on classic DND and set in a time period (in the story line) back in medieval times. Creatures such as dragons, beholders, skeletons, suits of armour, and so on are classic DND. There is a very clear time frame that I think 90% of people at least would agree on. DM2, went to an evolution of that fantasy world.. sort of.. but far into the future. More alien slightly steampunk.. but not my focus. Even the simple term Jerkin sets the time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerkin_(garment)

with the exception that the name creeps into ww1 as well, the majority of it's use, and the images which display them are from the 16th and 17th century.. and again showing paintings closer to the style I'd chosen for the portraits.

I will state again however that the portraits I've started were not for DM, but instead for a different project (remake of settlers of catan for android) but we never used for that and in fact that project is so far buried that much of the other art will likely never see light of day again .. so, since I worked hard on them, I figured they would fit within the DM frame. You will also note that when I first started redoing images of them, I had a rather different style, in fact I've done some of them many times and have had a different style each time. So think of it as just one more evolution.. one that ties closer to the roots of where DM comes from.. again.. a time period when images like this were present, and the legends which are the basis of DM were being told and shared. (side note on Nabi, again I did not have Nabi in mind when I made this.. so no he doesn't have a blue shirt, and no he's not tan skinned.. but he looks similar enough that i can adjust him, and actually, he reminds me a little of my egyptian biology teacher from highschool.. so I'm not far off )

NOW.. Interface. Function vs Art.

If you focus completely on function and forsake art, then you had best hope that it's for a device that is used for work rather than play.
http://fiesta.outspark.com/guides/game-interface
this interface is simple and has a tech flare to it.. modern elements tied into what would be a fantasy game, however looking at the clothing style of the characters you can see tradition has already been thrown out the window. So there is little need to keep the interface there either. The interface for the top left of screen lacks clarity in favor of form. Without the description of what each item is, you would not know what they were for. There is also a lot of wasted space to make it look more pretty. In terms of being functional, it's just barely so. They wanted a modern fairytale and made sure every graphic element met that style. If a character in this game suddenly pulled out a camera phone and took their own picture next to the dead monster.. people would simply laugh and accept it.. there's no clear timeline and no need for one. I however have already adopted a time frame.. so I have to support it all the way into the interface.

here is a professional site that does interfaces for games and websites for game companies and a lot of high end games.. not small jobs here. Look at a few examples (there are many) and see if any of them choose art over function, or if they choose function over art? and when they choose art, how closely does it tie to the world and style of the game represented? I think you'll find that they all adopt materials, shapes, and designs that fit in that games world, and that the art is more important than the function. (not so that it's non functional.. that would be stupid, but I think you get my point?)
http://www.antonw.com/portfolio/zelda-universe/

Now here is a company that does interface for medical software and devices. Note that even here, artistry has it's place, but in this case function takes over. Because it has to.
http://www.humanfactorsmd.com/our-company/work-samples/

so you see, it's not always about how it works, it's about how it feels in relation to the rest of the game. This is why I say it's not 100% function.. if you don't waste a little space to make it pretty and firmly root it into the world you're creating then it will distract from the game experience.

That said, I intend to have all the functions usable, just as they are in DM... and well if Gambit takes it over, then it'll be he who chooses that usage. However there is another factor which is Sophia and all her current working elements, as well as those who play DM. Deviation too far from the original interface will mean learning how to use it anew.. and recoding that use from the ground up. So far the only real thing that has changed is the resource bars which are sideways, they are also set to exactly 50pixels so it's 1 pixel slice per 2% of the mana, stamina, health. Which makes the math simple and reads within a low enough tollerance that you know what's going on. If I were to weigh in function over form here though, I'd put numbers... or if it were steampunk I could do that and still keep it make sense in terms of the world... providing other steam punk elements were in the dungeon.

So, I guess my next point would be that I'm not making this so that EVERYONE has to use this set. Remember that the function can remain the same but the graphics can change... and if I've made ANY real point today it's that they SHOULD change if the mood of your dungeon graphics are different. If you want a steampunk dungeon with steampunk graphics.. then make a steampunk variant. If you want to do an aliens vs predator type dungeon, then make a scifi based interface. Sophia has made it possible to skin the interface and is adapting this code to accomodate others. So I don't have to make a generic interface... I just need to make one that fits the art that I put into the game because that's what I want to see

I apprecaite everyones opinion though.. and value them. Just have a certain vision in mind that can be bent.. but not broken

just for you Zoom


and how about these two? syra and Zed maybe?



I can modify them a bit more to be closer to the portraits colours.. ie green top for syra and chainmail for zed..

I'd say Zed has shorter hair. Seems closer to Alex maybe?

had to do it..

I'm waiting for the slow motion gif where sudden;y his grin gets wider and wider

like...

so should I make him more creepy? I tried to actually mellow him a little

@Linflas: That's an absolute ROFL moment! Well done! Love the eyes

linflas wrote:like...

ROFL wtfbbq thats just creepy and funny at the same time

Omg I've been online all evening and somehow missed the new posts in this thread...rofl the Mophus pic is bloody hilarious...don't know quite why he has pointy ears but maybe it's to add to the whole freaky look...and Cows's pics are cool too of course . Though as I prefer non-human-types I'm more looking forward to Hissssa, Gothmog, Daroou, etc...

wow I love your work Cows ^.^ the graphics are awesome and the portraits are divine. I am sooo envious. I wanna be that good

the bika...

modification to make him leif..

Whoa, cool pics. I like how you've converted The Bika from Anubis.

azizi

The Bika looks great Cows. Keep them coming!

Wow! Excellent! Now, everybody is waiting for Chani, of course!

cowsmanaut wrote:

*cough*

Nice work Cows. But these look quite blurry. Is that the intention, or has that happened in the JPG conversion?

they're paintings I want them to feel that way so I've been painting them at this size rather than 4x larger. It keeps them unrefined. which to me feels more painting and less photo.

Leonardo da Cows! Yup, Oil looks good!

little time here, but just wanting to say really great!
now the post:

----------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_%28weapon%29

a morning star is in reality a flail variant with ball on a chain.

morning stars look like maces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_%28weapon%29

!!
So you cannot make thinks set in a time period merely by a dependant on names of a couple items
DM ´s morning star depiction is completely wrong but a widely and commonly accepted wrongness(not 100% historical correct)

As we agree, I would go straight to medieval dnd setting with dungeon master.
Even if the rapier was invented later on than the sword etc.

How far you can go away from classic DND :
Here you could take a look at tower of doom or shadows over mystara.
Strict DND world but a japanese conversion, so might be a bit different to your
normal DND..
http://www.fantasyanime.com/valhalla/ddsom_char.htm

You certainly have sound reasons to go where you are going.
and I will test your set when it is finished..I guess a running game with
complete new champions and gui is something different than looking at each
separately.

thanks for the blue shirt! me likes
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I would go first Function then art...if the function is all right with everyone, then ok.
As it seems to be the case all right
But I think there could be some room for improvement "while we are at it". Or not.
the goal is not a rehaul and new gui, I see that now.

Admittedly there is much garbage I posted but I´d like to see some small customizations -would be cool.


640 x 480 is a decent start. double that and you have 1280x960!!

Art is in a way more important than function, since Art is what stays longest
and is first noticed. It often sells a product. Without art, function is worthless

Good function-ality is not noticed too much. Maybe function is taken for granted-
if you do not have it well done and only then it leaves a bland taste to the product.
something along those lines(there are a few)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_model

thanks for the examples, cows. wasted space, form lot of to think about.
I wonder whether it is possible to have something be clear without a description.
clarity.. nice word here. In the case of DSB/ DM- gui everything is clear I guess.

what I meant with function is that you have to have a very clear structure. while the examples have
clearly a lot of art put on top, the structuring is definitely there(e.g. content area, menu-area, header area etc)
the sites are not all over the place there is no chaos, there is order. Art sometimes makes this hard order softer and forms a moresubtly underlying structure(e.g. round edges etc()

cows wrote: Now here is a company that does interface for medical software and devices. Note that even here, artistry has it's place, but in this case function takes over. Because it has to.
http://www.humanfactorsmd.com/our-company/work-samples/

a very critical acclaim, I am not 100% sure if it really has to look that way or if it can be "slightly" improved(does not look completely out of whack or 90ties but you know what I mean, just look at the cash ATM dispenser User Interfaces.. maybe it does not have to look like this. But I know where you are coming from. Too much art there would wash the focus)

cows wrote: If I were to weigh in function over form here though, I'd put numbers... or if it were steampunk I could do that and still keep it make sense in terms of the world...

this is also quite interesting to read. Again, I have to think all this over and in the
end there is probably no point because interface/gui stays mostly as is.
For the health bar I had a bubbling liquid in mind, not a solid red bar . This bubbling liquid would float in the container(=the health bar vial) and maybe react to hits and probably have the regeneration of health indicated


I might add at the end that I think a bit of relearning e.g spellcasting could be acceptable and maybe even prove quite refreshing to us all old users!!

concept... matte painting for mount anais for potential intro.



Had to do a matte painting anyway for classes to show my process.. so I chose this to sort of double dip Well see how it works out once I get the moving bits in there..

That is a painting?