DSB interface

[cowsmanaut]

After talking to Sophia a litte, I decided to take another crack at an interface. I took a few things from previous interfaces I've done and created a few new things.. Not sure if I'm fully happy with the colour coding, for me it feels a little out of place, but it does help you identify them quickly.. I'd appreciate some thoughts.



the plan is to go through and replace everything over the new few months.. see if I can make it this time.. don't hold your breath though.. I offer no assurances I can finish it all.. but a little encouragement to get updates done would be fine with me..

Additional note, these graphics are for free use in free software. Not for resale.

[Soaponarope]

That looks awesome, did you make those graphics?

[cowsmanaut]

thanks, and yes, I made them. spent 5 hrs on this today. tried a bunch of stuff out.. didn't like some of it.. the rest I'm not sure yet. I've got 2 more portraits done like that one too. those take a while though. Some of it is from previous efforts, but still my own work.. just re-adjusted to try and make it work here.

[Ameena]

I think the yellow of the arrows stands out a bit too much (sort of clashes/looks out of place/doesn't quite fit in with the rest of it). And you spelt Hissssa's name wrong. And for some reason he appears to have the wrong picture.
But apart from that, you know, it looks pretty good . I quite like that you colour-coded the rune/spellcasting boxes for each character too .

[Bit]

yes, perhaps take a shrinked pattern of the bottom for the texture of the arrows.
Very fine character boxes!

[linflas]

lovely ! i agree Ameena about the yellow arrows, and btw, most of interface colors are bit "too much" for me.
but most of all, i just think that DSB can do better than just replacing bitmaps at there original place. for example, do we actually "need" arrows ?

and of course Cows, i 'd be glad to contribute !

[beowuuf]

Huh, while they are bright and could be toned down (as with the champion colours) I actually liked it and thought it somehow worked for its oddity So yeas, if this were the finished thing, I would be fine with it. Thoguh I'm sure any tweak blending in the bolder elements will look good too.

And it's probably best to simply desigh the interface as is, instead of allowing feature creep get in the way. After all, with the basics done - that everyone has to agree with because they are the DM interface - everyone is free to modify it to their tastes later. Make design choices, and it will probably mean that there are people who wanted X or Y kept in, possibly in favour of the Z that you didn't remove.

[cowsmanaut]

hisssas image is the first one and it's hidden, thats Nabi

I had the arrows as more of a bronze before, I'll return them to that.. and you're right we don't really need arrows.. but then, they didn't really need them back with the amiga or st either.. so why did we have them?

does anyone here still use the arrows?

am looking for consistency in this, so if you were to contribute, say item icons, it'd be best if you did them all because then they won't feel out of place if they look like the same style. Keep in mind this project is to remove the copyright infringement so that Sophia can feel less like she's breaking the law giving it all out for free so slight deviation from the orriginal stuff is encouraged. Chances are the spell symbols and names may change as well.

[Jan]

does anyone here still use the arrows?

As far as I remember, in some versions of DM (probably not in DSB), arrows are faster than the keyboard, so in certain puzzles in certain custom dungeons using arrows was the only option.

Anyway, excellent work, Cows!

[beowuuf]

Ah, I missed the purpose of the interface thing, somehow.

I think some people with laptops still use the left and right turn (or left and right strafe). Again, keep in all the original elements and people can remove them (like Linflas if he wants to create a mobile-friendly interface)

If you are removing the runes, perhaps use the representations like DM2 did, but different enough (and perhaps desert for DES and a black hole/void for ZO) and use characters that represent six letters of or 1 - 6 for the power. Perhaps taken from some other language / style so they are recogniseably increasing in potency but still seem exotic.

[cowsmanaut]

I could remove the arrows.. and make the spell interface larger, and set up 2 handed actions.. that would fill in the space.

[oh_brother]

Love the graphics.

I certainly never use the arrows anymore, and I do not think many people would cry if they were removed. That would leave more space and be a deviation from the copyrighted stuff.

[Bit]

hehe, beware cows' lawyers, he has to feed one more mouth now

[Gambit37]

Nice stuff Cows Based on your changes, It seems that DSB can draw all interface elements into the top 40 pixels of the display, unlike RTC wich only allows a background image here. If so, that's pretty cool -- I like the way you moved the portrait and did horizontal stat bars.

I agree that the yellow arrows are too intense; they are drawing attention to themselves too much and making the action in the viewport seem less important. I'd definitely tone them down a bit. And definitely keep them too -- I still use the onscreen arrows and just because a few hardcore players use the keyboard for movement, doesn't mean that all players are happy to lose the onscreen arrows.

I certainly never use the arrows anymore, and I do not think many people would cry if they were removed. That would leave more space

More space for what? It might be interesting to use that space for a larger rune panel, perhaps arranged differently?

I tried a few times to do a "hi-res" update for RTC but gave up for two reasons (a) too big a job and (b) while I'm very good at interface imagery and scenery/etc, I suck at drawing organic forms like critters. So I hope you can really do the whole game, it's well overdue

[Jan]

More space for what?

A wing mirror?

[linflas]

I tried a few times to do a "hi-res" update for RTC but gave up for two reasons (a) too big a job and (b) while I'm very good at interface imagery and scenery/etc, I suck at drawing organic forms like critters. So I hope you can really do the whole game, it's well overdue

DSB could be super-hi-res. I mean, if we must change *everything*, why keeping 640x480 ?
Sophia has (minimum) 3 graphicians here that could make something really professional...

[cowsmanaut]

640x480 is double the size of DM, and completely sufficient. Much larger requires a LOT more work, and I wanted to keep the wall set I had put the effort into already, and just finish by doing the remaining elements. Ie, interface, monsters, item icons, items on floor, and spells. (and by spells I mean in dungeon, green mist, fireball, etc)

Gambit I can give you the interface file and you can work some of that dmcodex magic on it, in terms of interface work, you're 10x better at it than me, and I can get back to work on the monsters/spells. And Linflas, what is it you wanted to do? because items both in the interface and on the floor are not high on my list for getting done. I'd do them, but wouldn't enjoy them. That would mean the whole thing would be done. Also by breaking things up like that you can make sure it comes back together cleanly.. as our different styles could clash otherwise.

[Sophia]

The issue behind super-hi-res has always been that I don't really want to do the work to support it without someone working on the graphics, and I don't think anyone is going to work on the graphics when the engine doesn't even close to support it.

That, and I'm still not sure DSB's software-only approach to rendering can do a resolution that high without running like crap.

[Gambit37]

Sophia, if there was a team of people who were committed to doing all the graphics work required on a defined schedule with deliverables and what not, would you consider adding hi-res support? It's a serious question.

Cows, I'd be happy to do some Codex magic on your interface, although then it wouldn't be yours

[Sophia]

Gambit, let me get back to you on that. From a technological perspective, I'd have to do a few tests to see just how much of a headache this is going to be: either far less than I thought, about the degree that I thought, or (somehow) even more than I thought.

I'm also not sure I want to commit to the stress of being on a schedule. I wouldn't want to let the people who were doing graphics down, but things do happen! I also wouldn't want them to have to commit to that same stress, and for the same reason. Either they'll worry about letting me down, which creates stress I don't want to inflict on someone.

[linflas]

@cows : i can start with dungeon items (i don't feel conformtable with icons). i''d need your wallset bitmaps as background if it's possible.
of course, i'll pencil all these in super-hi-res (you never know ) and half-size them..

[Gambit37]

@Sophia: I must admit I don't really understand why it's such a big deal to increase the resolution? Setting performance aside, isn't it just a question of modifying all drawing routines by multiplying by whatever zoom factor you choose? I'm sure that's a long task, but it's surely not actually complex, just time consuming?

[cowsmanaut]

Gambit, well I don't care if the interface was mine, just needs to be updated, and you're great at interface stuff.

I can do monsters, and special fx. Walls are pretty much done. Those are the things I'm fastest at. Also don't you have updated icons for items already?

Linflas, do you think you can match to the detail of my wall set. You say hand drawn.. So sounding cartoony. How about making a test?

[Sophia]

I must admit I don't really understand why it's such a big deal to increase the resolution? Setting performance aside, isn't it just a question of modifying all drawing routines by multiplying by whatever zoom factor you choose? I'm sure that's a long task, but it's surely not actually complex, just time consuming?

The complexity comes in because it's not like I'm just going to change a bunch of numbers. That in itself is time consuming enough work that if I'm going to rip everything apart anyway then I might as well make it better while I'm at it. So, I'm going to add flexibility, so it can run at different resolutions, and probably add even more versatility to the UI elements. This will benefit even designers who want to run at 640x480. A few of these changes will be necessary anyway to accommodate Cow's new GUI, so I might as well just take it to its logical conclusion.

[linflas]

Linflas, do you think you can match to the detail of my wall set. You say hand drawn.. So sounding cartoony. How about making a test?

i thought about starting from existing pictures (i wont make 3d objects) and pencil them to make them fit to your wallset. i'm ok for the test, let's say with a sword, i just need your floor bitmap.

[cowsmanaut]

the image above contains all you'll need

or just use this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/ ... _floor.jpg

[zoom]

I would like to comment on the initial post

Not sure if I'm fully happy with the colour coding, for me it feels a little out of place, but it does help you identify them quickly.. I'd appreciate some thoughts.

The colours are garish, like in the original. Here, they pop out rather much-then again, as you said this is not as bad as it may seem because it helps identify ..
the thing is twofold:
first help identify - clear purpose and less is more here.
I am not completey sure as where to go there.. looked at interfaces from landsoflore, evils doom, chaosstrikesback, worldofwarcraft(crazy) and wizardry 6&7; some jrpgs too.
it seems the interface is laid on some background / stone or pillar etc images, surrounding the viewport. Imo this has to be very subtle. maybe going all black(without bg) is too less and does look off as well

In dm, the attack section and rune section is monochrome. THis helps in setting this portion apart from other elements on the screen.
In the initial inventory - picture, this is a little too prominent. Its all colours that do not read with the background or distract .
The borders of the champion sections, with the plant´s leaves seems too broad. I would go for something less border width-ish and increase champion pics
(show what is important, border at those places is not. Probably better to place this plant border around the viewport or something...)

-->I would re do/ re-arrange the champion section, but I am not sure how exactly.
there is try and error but then it could help to have an underlying grid system.
Aligning everything according to it, helps getting a tidy look-I should do that with the original dm-interface(also maybe dm2/2weapon handling)
and identify the underlying grid there. It helps also to see what is the smallest unit(probalby the rune) All other elements could build up from this smallest unit.

THe portrait -while looking really very good in itself! - i would throughout dungeon master prefer something less antique/realistic but more fresh, hip and youthful looking. But maybe that is just me.
The haircut and beard is from another century(19th) and he looks all too grumpli unhappy probably would not choose this fella. Btw, NAbi is afro - american
(here you can see that dealing with the dm-champions is not easy to satisfy. Too much connection to all champions have constituted a firm foundation on the looks, at least for me )

I have changed a bit of the interface from cows
and here is the result/ just a quick mock up, and have tried to pack things more tightly together:
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2676 ... face4a.jpg

[linflas]

that's true : Nabi looks like Sigmund Freud rather than a afro-indian priest

[Lord_BoNes]

@Cows: Love the work! It looks great. I must say that I agree with other people here... the yellow arrows look "off". But, apart from that, it's fantastic, a typical "cows production"! Keep up the good (art)work

[cowsmanaut]

Keep in mind Zoom that an interface is not 100% purpose. It's also to set a mood and to support the graphics of the game itself. Identify a time period, technology, materials, etc that fit in the world and follow that through in the interface. This is the main reason I don't like the vibrant colours. The reason I had that was from a previous version of the interface where I think people were suggesting it. So I'm fully ready to trash it. The gold arrows were bronze before, but honestly I thought they didn't stand out enough that I thought people would complain.. seems like my inital idea was better, or even better to just keep them stone or something..

Anyway, the portraits were some I started for a different project that I was working on, work on it was canned because of copyright issues despite being original graphics and a few unique rules.. and no price tag... anyway. The portraits were based on old paintings. I went and looked at some old paintings and tried to follow that style. I felt they were a good fit here because of the era that DM is set in. If the clothing items match that time, why not the portraits? Why should it all be hip and new in the portrait and yet be set in an older time.. I don't think that fits at all.. and I'm really not a fan of it. The furthest I'll go is a steampunk retro tech sort of deal which already fits a bit with the DM universe.

anyway, I can make him more egyptian not afro american..
http://www.sitefeminin.com/abdoutatif-3 ... mani.xhtml