Worm generator at the end of Ku

[Lunever]

I've just played through Dain, Neta and Ros in this order and also retrieved the Ku Corbum and the Dragon Fang via the shortcut between the Ros and the Ku Corbum. I want to go back to the JoW now to clean out the Rest of Ku, but when I first opened the Ros way into Level 00 before doing so, I noticed two things, that don't seem to me the way they are supposed to: The Demon Generator 21 (Encyclopaedia) at z00/x47/y21 was already active when I came there. I thought, it were supposed to be triggered only by using a lockpick on the lock south of it at z00/x47/y24 south ?

Also, after I opened the doors to the main part of Level 00, I noticed, that it is flooded now by an entire host of spiked worms, which seem to come from the Generator 20 at z00/x42/y20 beside the niche of the Dragon Fang. But I thought, that this worm generator was supposed to stop spawning worms, when you have killed all the worms and entered the tile of that generator?

George, can you confirm how this is supposed to be?

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[Gambit37]

The worm generator should only generate more worms by the pad in front of that tile. It should be set to activate by monsters only. The idea is that once you've cleared the area of worms, there are no more monsters around that can trigger the pad. Of course, if anything else comes along, such as a demon, and steps on the pad, then you'll end up with the infinite respawn again...

In RTC CSB, the trigger (object 1094) activates the generator immediately, but in FTL CSB there is a delay attached (if you follow the trigger path, it activates several demon faces first each with a delay). Perhaps the lack of delay causes problems, but it shouldn't really matter...

How do you know the demon generator was "active"? If there was a demon wandering around, he might have got there another way.... you're right though, that generator should only create a demon if you use lock picks on the skull key hole. I checked the RTC CSB txt file and it looks like it should all work correctly...

[beowuuf]

Also, all monster floods in CSB (ok, the major ones anyway) were filtered through a counter so there was an upper limit on generation whatever 2 x 38(hex) is, i blelieve : )

I think the bigest reason for the worms is simply that CSB didn't let the creatures move around unless you were close to the level, whereas in RTC objects always move - so they will be moving aroudn and generating more worms from the outset
So CSB you reach the basement quickly, and so not much generation, in RTC they are spawning as you deal with the start, supplies for thw quick, etc

[Lunever]

Well, to emulate CSB-behaviour I think the trigger should be set to worms only, or there be two triggers and two generators at the same tiles, one worm-generator with a short respawning time triggered by worms only, and one worm-generator with a long respawning time triggered by any monster.

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[Lunever]

Ah, and Gambit, 'bout the demon generator: Because when I entered the FulYaPit-Level coming from Ros I faced a demon there, and there is no other way on from the rest of the level as long as you don't open any door. And a few seconds later there were more demons coming, 2, 3, 4...so I assume that the generator was on.

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[Gambit37]

But something has to activate the generator, it can't just be "ON".... where exactly are the demons appearing?

[Lunever]

When I entered through the imaginary wall there was already a demon there, and when I had killed it, moving around a bit to do so (without opening any doors), there were two more, and during that battle, there came another one. I killed that one while standing upon the generator tile myself, after that no more demons came. So what I'd like to know is whether there is anything else beside the lock that is able to activate that generator, maybe some floorpad or something.

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[Lunever]

AAAaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!!!!!
It is indeed as bad as I feared. I've now returned to the FulYaPit-Level, and it's FLOODED with spiked worms, they are on every tile.
At least it is proven now that RTC can handle a LOT of monsters.
PS: When I go away a few tiles from the worm generator it is reactivated. Where exactly are the floorpads triggering it?

There should be something done about that endless flood of monsters. Since RTC does not have the natural limits of FTL-CSB, it should be limited in that particular case deliberately.
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[Gambit37]

I've just taken a look at the CSB RTC file and found a bug: there is a floor pad on the top level at (17,4,0) which activates the worm generator when you enter KU near the door with the square key hole. This should be a ONCE ONLY pad, but in RTC CSB it's not. So every time you come back this way, the worms start spawning again.... and because there are no delays attached to the generator, it doesn't take long to fill the room with worms...

As for the demon generator, besides the lock picks activation, there's another way that this generator operates too: there's a pad at (24,4,0) just before the imaginary wall that activates the generator. So if you come from downstairs using that path (ROS corbum), more demons are generated every time... Beowuuf might want to check the hex for that trigger though as I'm unsure if it's supposed to operate once only or not.

Mystery solved!

[Lunever]

I just wanted to go to the FulYaPit, BUT: Now I know where the rest of the worms has gone to: Hundreds of Worms have teleported into Chaos' abode, enough to make even CSB become buggy,. I've made a screenshot (which I will send to George) where dozens of worms are placed upon the same tile. I guess the only method to solve this is to find the master key and direct the Wrath of God in there so the worms are killed. *sigh*

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[Gambit37]

In fact, there is another pad I've just discovered at (18,9,0) that ALSO starts the worm generator. Again, I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a ONE TIME only pad or not as I'm no expert on the hex stuff.

It's positioned right in front of the door that requires the Onyx Key, in the same room as the worm generator...

[Lunever]

Um, I suppose you don't use the coordinate grid I'm used to from the Encyclopaedia maps? Where would that be in that grid?

PS: I managed to find the master key under a heap of worm rounds and directed the Wrath into Chaos abode which killed most of the worms. According to the finishing statistix there was a total count of 400 worms killed.

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[Gambit37]

The Encyclopedia coordinates for the various triggers are here:

(33,18,0)
(35,23,0)
(41,18.0)

These triggers are not listed of Christophe's maps.

[Lunever]

Ah, and one more thing, speaking about the Master key: It's icon is golden/yellow, but it's dungeon image is white, I think it should rather resemble the gold key's image instead.

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[beowuuf]

I'm tryign to check the co-ordinates but I can't get anything to match up...

If it's what i think it is, then there is a basic 32 monster limit on that generator - as you say there is a one time activation on that door, but there is an unlimited activation from another trigger, and from monsters themselves
So that area should flood quite quickly with worms, but them once the counter has been exhausted, no more worms
RTC will be more pronounced, i'm gussing, since that also means worms singly wandering around, not just groups

[beowuuf]

Yes, from what I can see only the trigger near the door is one-time only, all the rest are unlimited

For reference, any trigger that has x4 or xC as its 5th byte hex is one-time only, anything else is normal : )

[George Gilbert]

Fixed for V0.27