new competition?

[le sourd]

Can you make un new competition of DM or CSB? :) I loved videos of competition DM and CSB. :D

[Paul Stevens]

Someone said that they knew the game so well that
they could play it blindfolded. So perhaps we should have
a DM competition in which it is illegal to cast any 'torch'
or 'light' spells. And only one torch is allowed to be used
through the entire game.

[Simon]

on CSB thats not a problem. I only have 1 torch and despite it being burnt out it still provides quite a lot of light.

[sucinum]

blindfolded dming sounds nice :-)
any special aims next to beat it in a short time?

[Antman]

I could play CSB without light i guess, so i am willing to try. But the thing is they wont make very good movies to watch, kinda hard to see......

[rain]

How bout this:

The highest experience with a SET amount of possible moves: You play until you hit approx 3000 moves (or so, i don't know a good number right now) with CSB reincarnated character(s). Divided into 3 groups: Single hero, double hero, and 4x heroes.

You could interchange moves with time (2 hours instead of 3000 moves?) OR reverse it: The least amount of time to get 1 "lo master" of anything (or archmaster)

2 possible ideas, if anyones up for making it official

[le sourd]

Here my proposal:

You play DM and CSB exactly like the old competition BUT without
torch, nor light. Thus plunged in the black, it will be much harder
to play.

Etes you of agreement with me?

[Simon]

Least number of moves in a certain time limit sounds most fun.

[PaulH]

While the darkness competition will indeed be a test of dungeon knowledge, it will be, as somebody pointed out, not the most compulsive of viewing.

So here is my suggestion. Similar to Race to Fusion, but you have to collect some items on the way. This makes the player take more of the dungeon on during play and have to kill some monsters rather than dodge them...

I propose that you have to take 4 team members, and in your quest collect the armour of Darc and Lite (inc shields) a full set of plate armour and possibly a full set of cursed armour. Also collect the inquisitor, equip all these items, one set of armour per member, get the firestaff, kill the dragon then fuse Chaos.

Not too complicated or too much to remember but a few 'tasks' on the way. No saves allowed, must be done in one recorded go. Fastest time wins.

[Antman]

How about killing the least amount of monsters? This could make for an exciting game to watch, lots of tactics and doging and you can take as long as you wish.

[Alpha]

Suggestions:

-Playing DM or CSB without using
1) Any flask
2) Any close combat weapon better than dagger
3) Any attack spell (except 'des ew')
or
4) Several of the 3 above

-Beating DM or CSB with the least levels gained

[Simon]

Any flask while interesting is rather annoying when you sustain injuries to a part of the body because you cannot recover through resting.

The other ones seem fine :D

[le sourd]

My proposals:

I agree with PaulH. BUT I add two options:

Prohibition to look after itself with flask!!!

If you will recontrez a monster, kill OBLIGATORILY. Not to dodge
monsters!

Thus, there will be new records speed with new options.

Then? Then? Waf? Ouaf? Ouaf? Houba? Houba?

[Kate]

This is my favorite challenge, proposed to me by a friend long ago before we had any of these options to record games or count moves.

Your party consists of Tiggy, who, for reasons unknown, absolutely refuses to use magic for any reason, ever (except for one zokathra spell). Armed only with her bare hands, she may carry only one item at a time and is only allowed to eat what she kills herself.

[Paul Stevens]

Tiggy without magic.

I rather like that. I would make an exception
on the magic where magic is necessary. For
example....Where it is necessary to cast a spell
to open a door on the other side of a pit.
"CAST YOUR INFLUENCE-CAST YOUR MIGHT'.
I don't remember if other such puzzles exist that
can only be solved with magic.

But what is meant by 'carry one object'? You mean
in the backpack? Only one object in the backpack?
Or one object in the hand? Or one altogether?
I'm willing to abide by the rule if I know what it is.
One in the hand and one in the 'cursor'? If I have
a torch in my 'weapon' hand, can I pick up a dagger
from the floor and throw it?

[Kate]

A clever Tiggy without magic, who knows the dungeon like the back of her hand and becomes an expert ninja. And is very skinny.

The only puzzle that requires magic and is absolutely necessary is the final ZoKathRa spell. You don't need to do "Cast your influence-cast your might" if you pick up enough gold keys elsewhere.

Areas with ghosts are touch and go- have to be able to save the game and sometimes make a few attempts to get through.

One object altogether. It is legal to be holding one object and pick up another to throw it, but you can't take a step with any more than one object. If you carry a torch, that is your one item.

It is also ok to use an item to cast a magic spell.

Because I was unwilling to let Tiggy run about the dungeon naked, I allowed clothing, but not amulets. Later I played it with Gothmog and no clothing.

[rain]

Will you make an exception for keys/waterskins?

If you carry a torch (to see), you can never drink water
If you carry a waterskin, you can never see
If you carry either, you can never hold more then 1 key

The worst part is, after so and so many levels, there aren't torches available, so half the game your going to be playing in the dark (unless you want to run back and forth between level 2 and level 11)

That doesnt seem fun to watch =[ (Its similar to the no light thing imo)

[le sourd]

Who makes the decision to open an official competition?

I say that because I would like to know when will be held the
competition. Thank you!

[Paul Stevens]

Agree on rules and give me a week and I might be
able to supply a CSBwin binary that enforces the
rules. Would that be helpful? It would solve the
problem of misunderstandings about the rules because
there would be only one rule:

1) Use CSBwin version 'TIGGY'

[Gambit37]

Up till now, I haven't been interested in any of the "Race" type competitions, but this one appeals to me. It's been a while since I've played DM with one character, let alone such other stringent rules, so this could be a real challenge.

A new EXE that enforces the rules is a great idea, as there are too many possibilities for misunderstandings.

[Kate]

No exceptions to the carrying rule (the way I played, at least). You have to throw your 'storeroom' with you. Or run back and forth carrying things along one at a time. I think I ended up playing most of the game in the dark- it may not be the most exciting game to watch, but is sure is great to play! In fact, the whole challenge restored a lot of the original thrills to the game that had somewhat worn off in all the years of playing. Imagine facing rats in the darkness with only your bare hands!

[Paul Stevens]

Concerning the comment about a burnt-out torch
providing a lot of light. That is now fixed.
Torches dim gradually and go out. I never
used a torch and never discovered the problem.
Please! If you find problems like that....let me know.

PAul

P.S. If you want a 'TIGGY' release...it will be dark
without a torch. There is always a tiny amount of
light. RTC (as I recall) has no light whatsoever. The
'TIGGY' release could turn off the lights completely if
that is what everyone wants.

[Paul Stevens]

Here is an attempt to codify the rules: We can update
them but we need to enumerate them in order to
get started.

1-Reincarnate TIGGY only.
2-Only allowed spell is ZoKathRa.
3-Play all the way through without Save/Restore.
4-Clothes allowed except amulets.
5-One additional object in possession and one in cursor.
6-Turning allowed but not movement if non-empty cursor.

Another thing I could do with the TIGGY version of CSBwin
is to make torches last longer. Right now they have 15
charges and it is decremented every 90 seconds.
Making it longer would still require that you include a
torch in your (very limited) possessions and some people
may manage to play without it.

By the way....I think you could cheat. If you could
determine when the 90-second invervals occur then
you could drop the torch for a few seconds and the
number of charges would not get decremented. Then
you could pick it up again. You may want to play the
game with a timer at your side! Or play in small
screen size and watch the time on the screen. (How
quickly can you divide by 90?)

[Gambit37]

You're right about RTC -- it's not as clever as the original DM when it comes to lighting, so when it's dark, it's completely dark. I prefer the DM method where the lowest light level still has some detail visible. My rationale for that is that there's phosphorescent moss on the dungeon walls...

Anyway, please live CSBTiggy with the original DM light model! I think it'll be way too hard and frustrating otherwise. But I think it's OK to keep torches with their standard 90 second charges.

[Paul Stevens]

At:

webpages.charter.net/pstevens1

you can find a CSBtiggy.zip

Everything you need to get the feel of the TIGGY
competition. The rules have not been declared final
so don't spend a lot of time and energy with it.
But you can try it out to see if it is too hard.
Please report any problems.

[Paul Stevens]

This competition seems extraordinarily difficult.
How about if I modify CSBtiggy to heal
wounds occasionally while the party is sleeping?
Easier would be to allow VI potions to be created.

[Antman]

I think there is a bug in this program, i keep running into invisible walls, they go away after awhile, but i died from running into them. Is anyone else having the same problem?

[Kate]

The 'invisible walls' are what happens if you break the rules- if you try to move with more than one object. A rather brutal way to inforce them, when it takes away 1/6 of your health points with each blunder. Is there a way to allow movement with an object in the cursor, as long as there is no object held somewhere else?

Reincarnating Tiggy makes the beginning more difficult, by lowering her health to an outrageous 12. What about resurrecting her?

I think the no save rule is also unrealistic- there will be times when blunders are inevitable. What happens when you get trapped by a ghost?

There are also other twists in my original proposal: fighting only with bare hands, and eating only what you kill. I don't know if these are possible to program in.

It is possible to win the game with my original restrictions, with a combination of luck, skill, and saved games for when the luck runs out. Healing from wounds is problematic, but there are a few vi potions lying around the dungeon, as well as the snake staff way down there. Poisen is also problematic, but most poisens wear off with time. I forget if scorpion poisen does- you have to do a lot of dodging on that level, anyway.

[Paul Stevens]

I can easily implement the "Eat only what you kill"
with 98 percent accuracy....I think. The objects
that initially occupy the dungeon have a bit set that
is not set in the creatures' remains.

Fighting with bare hands? It would easy to limit actions
to "punch" and "kick". But eliminating "throw" would really
make it difficult to move any objects around.

The "no save" rule is from previous competitions. What
is the consensus? Get trapped? You're toast. Start over.
Do you have any idea how many games of CSB I played
before winning? I'm ashamed to say.

Ditto with "reincarnate". What is the consensus?

Move with object in cursor if nothing anywhere else?
Easy to do if that is what we want. And the 'running
into a wall was not necessary, either. It was the
easiest thing to do and I thought it was a rather good
idea after trying it. But it can change.

I think all poison heals eventually.

I will not post another enumeration of the rules or release
a new CSBtiggy until there is some more feedback.

PAul

[rain]

Feedback:

As of now the rules sound (to me) so hard that i don't have the least bit interest in even trying...

If it comes to throwing a stash of keys around (or whatnot) or having to restart after 3 hours when you screw up is not my idea of "fun" =]

Personally i think compition is good when its doable repeatedly, just getting better each time, not being near impossible =]