The end of DM?

Post by **PaulH** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:05 am

Has the expansion of DM and CSB finally ran its course? When I first found this site and the forums it was full of activity, new dungeons, competitions and speculation about items and statistics. Now we seem to know everything, nobody really works on dungeons and the competitions have run their course, nothing new. Just a few posts (when you can!) about an odd piece of code or strange behaviour of golemns. Or maybe on armour and its merits. What next?

Post by **PaulH** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:18 am

To try and liven things up I just completed a game with my old friend Mr Bladecaster, while completetely inebriated (fine belgian lager aka Stella Artois and about 7 pints pints of) and suprisingly managed 45 minutes via seveeral cock ups, accidently incarnating firepits and the like and smashing numerous times into the wall(s). And lots of sleep. Though that migth have been me. I will post it if anybody is interested...

Goodnight...

EasyCyan · Post by **EasyCyan** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:44 am

It's not the end, I think we have a lot to see on SNES-DM (now playable on Snes9X v1.40 for Windows), which has different Creature designs (Trolins look more scary) and the Champions look less cartoon like and more life like. And much much more, even the dungeon is a tad different.

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:52 am

Yes, the site is having a bad time, because I think it is very discouraging to have to attempt several tries before succes in order to engage a conversation of the forum.
Remember also that several fora are avalaible at:
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/

As for the new dungeons, I'm working hard with CSBuild. I would like to release a dungeon using the new features of Paul's editor, in the hope it would emulate people to use it and create other dungeons.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:10 pm

The English Language has been around for a very long time
compared to Dungeon Master. And yet, as this tread aptly
demonstrates, people still find that it can be manipulated
in strange and interesting ways.

So may it be with DM.

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:40 pm

Oh, wasn't it the gibberish scroll thread here? ;-)

Post by **PaulH** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:40 pm

If only as many people played DM as spoke English...

I can't register at the other forums, I keep getting an 'invalid session' message.

4

Post by **PaulH** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:43 pm

If only as many people played DM as spoke English...

I can't register at the other forums, I keep getting an 'invalid session' message.

9 (ridiculous)

Antman · Post by **Antman** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:22 am

Maybe we can conjure up a new competition, maybe not the play DM while inebriated as i am only 16 and i don't think it would go to well with my parents.....but something like do everything in the dungeon, kill all the monsters and collect all the items or race through other peoples dungeons or someone could design a dungeon specifically for competitions or whatever, i am prepared to try new things. I still check the site almost every second day or more if something interesting is being talked about.

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:19 pm

No reason to assume there is no interest in the DM series anymore. Dungeons are built, editors worked at, DSA's explained and after all it was summer so people might have pursued other activities than sitting inside torturing screamers when the sun was burning down.

Regards, PitD

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:37 pm

Yup, people's lives tend to ebb and flow too - we lose some people for a while or totally, but there still seems to be new people coming along al lthe time, so by no means is it dead : )

If you like, despite the years DMute, etc has been availble, the dungeons still total up to only 20, many quite old now, so you have to forgive occasional dry spells!

Unrelatedly, i sent you an e-mail with a working log-in for the dm boards, hope that helps

2nd

Post by **PaulH** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:46 am

I would like another competition, but a comp is only a comp if you have at least one opponent. I have suggestested comps for Dm re the armour etc but nobody seems bothered.

I would like to try to develop this great game, but I can't get text mute to work on XP, or the graphics editors so I am stuck.

Working on 'dsa's' may improve gameplay but I have yet to see it implemented into a dungeon. It may not make a better gaming experience. The best dungeon so far is 'imprisoned again', and for sheer gameplay, and simplicity, this may never be beaten. Gameplay is what DM is about.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:17 am

DMBuilder has text editing built in - textmute is only required for DMuted dungeons

Have you installed the visual pogramme in XP to use textmute..i forget exactly what zyx used

Max Cannaday · Post by **Max Cannaday** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:01 pm

I played two dungeons and was not impressed at all.
If they could be better organised and rated by users in maintained list sorted by plausible complexity (opposed to 2year old at a piano complexity) and users rating (and how many rated)...

I would be much more motivated to try them out, and product some maps myself. As-is, I feel that if I spend a week or month designing the perfect map, I'd call myself fortunate if somebody clicked the download link at all. And I'd never know.
- Max

Post by **Zyx** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:56 am

Yes, the dungeon production is still very artisanal. We need more dungeons, more testers, more reviewers, and then a better organization.
Maybe Christophe is willing to think about a rating system and classifications (we already have the criteria like overall note, complexity, origniality, size, etc.)
Maybe some challenges about a given dungeon could be organized?
(Like: the best time, or "what is the final message of the ending?" - with an encrypted, non-editable dungeon, of course - ).
Personnaly I played all the available dungeons. I finished most of them. I rated some of them. I produced few of them.
Anyway you are welcome to leave your comments and ratings in the dungeons sections. For now this is the only pre-information one can get about a dungeon.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:14 am

for a long time, i prefered building dungeons to playing them. i didn't mind TOO much if people played them or not, i was happy when they were ok for me - ok, this lead to the "martix-problem", which was only solveable with my playing style alone, but that's what the forum is for ;)
on the other hand, i enjoy reading any comment about my dungeons and wouldn't mind having 100s of ratings and questions ;)
i'd personally say that "imprisoned again" is very playable and maybe even a bit impressive ;)
as i prefer creating to playing, i can't say too much about the other dungeons (shame on me), but there are some for any type of player available.
atm, i don't have too much time so you won't see a new dungeon from me the next time, but maybe in future - you never know. i have enough ideas to build dungeons the next few years ;)

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:50 pm

I agree partly with you, Max. Some of the efforts I've seen are very worthwhile playing even if you prefer a different style as the designer.

But neither the dungeon format (in my opinion they should all be available as a dungeon.dat, one Readme including at least the aim and known bugs if not a short story) nor the descriptions and reviews are always satisfying.
Some dungeons even simply don't work after "successful" conversion to CSBwin format ...

Since Christophe is still having problems with his provider it might be hard to reorganize here - and I don't know how if even all of the deungeon designers are still available or around...

Regards, PitD

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:09 pm

Quote:

"Some dungeons even simply don't work after "successful" conversion to CSBwin format ..."

I do not know what is meant by "Don't work". But.....If you mean
designer errors (like forgettting to provide an exit from a
hidden pit) then, of course, CSBuild cannot help. But....if you mean
that the design passes all CSBuild tests and then CSBwin
crashes; or if it does not do what CSBuild says it will do (like
a monster regenerator recycles more quickly than the value set
in the editor), then you must get these to me so that CSBuild/CSBwin
can be fixed for the next person. There is nothing that is going to
stop people from producing quality designs more quickly than the
frustration of working with broken tools.

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:26 pm

I meant that the tools (converter/CSBuild) were created by different people so sometimes they don't work together as expected. Any flaws I can find and reproduce will be reported to you, don't worry. I just finished two dungeons yesterday, now there's some time in the next days for reproducing. I'll get back to you, thanks for your help. Anyway, should you not be on vacation? ;o)

Regards, PitD

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:20 pm

Those two dungeons that you finished and did such
a good job of reviewing were very encouraging to me.
Something has to be working right.

The vacation was 3 days only.

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:48 am

Hope you enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong - most of the times CSBwin and CSBuild work very well indeed. But as is (my) custom with good things I'm trying to find little flaws left... see them work even better. And indeed the efforts you put in there make them work very nicely already. Only some 200 build until V1.0 ;)

Regards, PitD

FoxBat · Post by **FoxBat** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:36 am

Uh, this site popped up at least a decade after DM/CSB's prime.

What the heck is "run it's course" supposed to mean in that sort of context? O_o ?

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:37 pm

Ir probably translates as "gone with the wind" or something similar

Regards, PitD

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:36 am

I am about to release a new dungeon, "Conflux II", probably a few days after CSBwin97 is released.
You were talking about a new competition earlier. What about using this new, unknown dungeon? The goal could be to the first to reach a given ending for example.
We can even set an easy competition (easy end), a medium (quite difficult) and a hard competition (tough end). No rules, as the dungeon will not be editable.
Savegames would be the proofs. Maybe movies too, but I don't know if the recording works after load operations...
Anyone interested?

PicturesInTheDark · Post by **PicturesInTheDark** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:33 pm

Why not? Although I should probably play the first one before opening my mouth *g* I hope you will make it editable after the competition though? I always like looking at the game mechanics after finishing... it's qiote astonishing sometimes what people come up with...

Regards, PitD

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:56 pm

About making it editable: of course I don't want to keep any secrets. But there is an order issue: I want people to play before.
So here's a deal. I will mail the editable dungeon to anyone asking for it as long as he reached at least 4 endings. Just quoting the final sentences would be enough. Does it seems fair? Or am I too exigent?

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:58 pm

Although I should probably play the first one before opening my mouth

Don't. Conflux II is just the expanded version of Conflux I.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:29 pm

Using a design that cannot be edited is rather dangerous.
A good idea. But dangerous. If there are design flaws
then people will be getting stuck or the game will die (the
infinite monster geneator, for example) and there will
be no way to determine what has gone wrong. I suggest
that it better be well tested. Well tested. By someone
willing to opt out of the contest and play the game as if it
were not editable.

The recording works after a save. I can even provide
a program to splice the parts together into a single
piece without the saves.

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:49 pm

I thought a little about the encryption dilemma. First of all I am playtesting a lot by myself up to sickness. I also added several texts naming the places for easy references for the players.

Then... I thought I could load an encrypted dungeon if I knew the keycode? Am I wrong again?

Post by **Zyx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:59 pm

... and also... the recording could help a lot to visualize what's wrong...

My doubts about playing record files with a load operations is that I once had a try and got timers errors. I'll try to see if I can reproduce that.
In the meanwhile, here's the description from my memories:
(note: filenames are pure fiction and any coincidence with reality would be a good sign for my failing memory).

i started a new game with the recording option. I played a little, saved and quit. Log1 and savegame1 were created.

I ran CSBwin again, loaded the game with the record option, played, saved and quit. Log2 and savegame2 were created.

I renamed log2 as "playfile.log" or something like that, ran CSBwin, choosed "playback" and loaded savegame1.
The game almost immediately announced timer errors while playing the movie.

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