CSBuild Version 0.776

[Paul Stevens]

Do not add any columns to your levels with any version
prior to this one, Version 0.776.

Previous versions did very bad things to your dungeon
if the last column contained any objects and you added
a new column. If you have any such dungeons you should
look carefully at the column which was last before adding
the new columns. I might be able to help if there is a great
deal of work that will be lost as a result of this. This kind
of thing is what I fear most and one reason I don't like to
add complicated things to the editor once it is stable.

Also in Version 0.776:

--See the Edit And/Or dialog. I provided context sensitive
help for the Browse button. See if this is a good idea to
extend to all of the dialogs.

--Fixed the "Strange" warning when adding a new pushbutton.

--Identify party member of bones in right-side map text.

--Default is to have two different door types on a new level

--Removed 'Cancel' from Edit Endgame dialog

--Changed a lot of 'Dropdown' lists 'Drop Lists' where you
are not allowed to enter arbitray text. About twenty of
them, in fact.

--Monsters can carry actuators or text. Fingers crossed.

--Added an 'Edit Level' tool.

--Added 'Edit DSA' tool.

--Removed second 'nothing' from Shooter's object list.

--Sort Available Floor decoration list.

--Sort available wall decoration list.

--Sort available Door decoration list.

There is plenty left to do so don't get worried that I
am getting lazy or bored. I am releasing quickly to get
that column-adding error fixed as soon as possible.

[PicturesInTheDark]

Some reports on V0.776:

* Context sensitive help is a good idea. But you'll need a lot of work on the single dialogs (or a lot of "ask Paul Stevens' messages) and their wording if you mean to implement them all around. Just think about a DSA-context sensitive help...
* Request to enhance "Find objects" with weapons as well.
* Request for unification of writing (Upper case only at start of words) for all lists in the "Edit level information" dialog.
* I'll repeat a graphical request - since my knowledge of the object names is not faultless and I guess this is the same for many others, graphics for decorations when inside a "new" or "replace" dialog (for exaple below the "ok" and "new" buttons), changing for each selected object, would considerably ease selections. I'm sure most people would appreciate being able to actually see what they get when they click on "Dent1", "Point" or "Crack" before actually confirming the selection. Same goes for all other decorations.
* If you add party member bones, the text says "Bones(Party)-a" by default. I can change the value to get bones b-d, but that is not at all obvious. Maybe a changed text or "Party Member 1-4" instead of "Value" would be easier (you could still use the values 0-3 internally, but the display and valid entries would be 1-4).
* When trying to start the "TeamDungeon" (to be found in the "New dungeons Upload" forum, I'm getting a bit tired of confirming each single "Duplicate object" message. Maybe there's a way around this - like saying it once "Duplicate objects in dungeon" and then creating a list of all of them and allow the user to either scroll through or dump them to a file analogue to the feature implemented in V0.775.
* One thing more to the same file (TeamDungeon): When all the duplicate object warnings are finally through I get warnings when pointing the cursor on several decorations that seem to have been modified - like the portraits on trick walls in the Hall of Champions you don't want to allow. While this certainly has a good reason, it's very annoying while browsing the dungeon. Maybe something else can be done rather than a pop-up message every time the users goes over an illegal/changed decoration by chance that he does not even know about.
* I still do find it neither logical nor intuitive to select "actuator" and "disabled" (+adding graphics to the "edit level info|wall decorations" + choosing the wall graphic) to get a "Vi Altar". Too far-fetched. By the way, what does "Local Action" on the "Edit disabled actuator" window mean?
* CSBwin 9.51e works great so far, but I got an error when trying the "Items remaining" on my test dungeon (expected, but still). It said "You have encountered code at relative address 0x000000 that I thought was unused...." - just so you know.
* I put an "end game" actuator in the possession of a monster and tried editing it. The following things happened: "Sorry not implemented"-message. [ok] Another "Sorry not implemented"-message. [ok] A "There is nothing you can change"-message with a strangely placed text part near the bottom of the window. [ok] Yet another "Sorry not implemented"-message. [ok]
When I tried to delete the actuator, CSBuild crashed ("CSBuild.exe has generated errors...").
Text in monster possession worked fine.

Regards, PitD

[Paul Stevens]

Context sensitive help is a good idea. But you'll need a lot of work

Work has become my middle name since you and
Zyx discovered CSBuild. But what is the alternative?
I tried Rest and you all complained that you could
not figure it out for yourselves. Besides, I had
hoped for some help!
==================================================
Request to enhance "Find objects" with weapons as well

What are you talking about? I can find no "Find
Objects" that needs enhancing.
==================================================
Request for unification of writing

It looks like they already start with upper-case.
If you can point out specific exceptions, then
I can fix them.
==================================================
I'll repeat a graphical request - since my knowledge of the object names is not faultless

Nobody expects you to be faultless. You are already
good enough for me and you will get better as you
continue to practice.
===================================================
If you add party member bones, the text says "Bones(Party

I will make the party bones easier to manipulate.
===================================================
I'm getting a bit tired of confirming each single "Duplicate object" message. Maybe there's a way around this - like saying it once "Duplicate objects in dungeon"

I am already comitted to fixing this. Perhaps I will
make a quick release just for you with this repair.
===================================================
"Not Implemented" in Team Dungeon.

I will find these one at a time and fix them. Then you
can tell me which ones I missed.
===================================================
I still do find it neither logical nor intuitive to select "actuator" and "disabled"

I find it perfectly logical.
===================================================
what does "Local Action" on the "Edit disabled actuator

That is a bit of left-over. Every Actuator has a bit
that, when set, causes the actuator to perform an action
local to the cell it is in (rather than send a standard
message). It is used to cause the 'Rotate Actuators'
action such as for Torch Holders or Up- Down-Switches.
Obviously it has no use in a Disabled Actuator (or
perhaps not so obviously). I will remove it.
====================================================
CSBwin 9.51e works great so far, but I got an error when trying the "Items remaining"

Can you send me the 'Test Dungeon'? I will fix it.
====================================================
I put an "end game" actuator in the possession of a monster and tried editing it. The following things happened: "Sorry not implemented"-message. [ok]

I'll see if I can duplicate this and fix it.
=====================================================
=====================================================
I have 16 cards in my CSBuild pile. Two are for
changes that will take a week or so. One, the
context-sensitive help, will go on forever.

I have 5 cards in my CSBwin pile. Like the Gigglers
stealing from backpack which has implications for
CSBuild also.

So you people are obviously doing a good job. Thanks.

[PicturesInTheDark]

Context-sensitive help: Sure you can have. But I'll mainly concentrate on the manual when I have time. Make a suggestion how you want it to be done and we'll see.

"Find object in dungeon": So far you cannot search for weapons. I requested that this would be added to the search for miscellaneous items already implemented.

Unification in writing: The 4 lists in "Edit|Level info" are different - two of them only use upper case, the others don't. I think having them all the same style would be more comfortable for the eye.

Graphical request: elegant dodge there ;)

Adding graphics like "Vi Altar": I guess it's perfectly logical from a programming point of view. But if you (read: I, other users) don't have that view (which includes knowledge about programming and it's language) it's not obvious. But I respect if you say you understand it and that's enough to meet the specifications.

I'll send you the dungeon, but please don't waste time on it - I just use it for fun and reproducing the features you built in. No harm done if it does not work. I actually expected it not to, since there is no Ful Ya pit and probably the specified area from CSB original does not exist yet as a level.

Thanks for your time and efforts,

regards, PitD

[Paul Stevens]

"Find object in dungeon":

Oh, yea.....I forgot that I had done that.
Of course, I'll add weapons.

Back to the closet for more cards.
===============================
The 4 lists in "Edit|Level info" are different

I am looking at the four lists right now. I don't
see that they are different. In all four lists the
items have thir first letter upper-case and the
rest in lower case. What am I missing here?
===============================
I got your dungeon.

The "Items Remaining" was certainly built only
for the CSB dungeon. It excludes things you cannot
reach, for example, and wants you to put all the
items in a particular place.

What should we do about this? Perhaps if you
declare "DM rules" then I should list all items and
ignore the Four Corbums, etc. Or I could change it
to "List CSB items" and add another "List All Items".

[Paul Stevens]

The 4 lists in "Edit|Level info" are different

As you were.....now I see what you mean. I was
looking at the lists that pop up when you press
'New'.

I agree that they should be consistent.

[Zyx]

1) In my mind of level designer, a wall or an open cell are "a virgin, free space ready to be edited". It is a pain to always have to first open the cells in order to place stairs, trick walls and doors. I set the expert mode, but it didn't matter. Could you change that please?


2) I don't understand the meaning of "torch type" in the weapon edit screen:
a) torches should have this value set by default, right? (they haven't)
b) What is the effect of a torch which is not "torch type"?
c) What is the effect of another weapon which is "torch type"?

3) Chargeable items should come by default with the maximum of charges.

4)MON POTION(BLUE) should be: MON POTION(STAMINA)

5) in the edit open room screen, could give more details about texts in the listboxes? If there are several on the same cell, when I pop them to the bottom I'm rapidly lost, because each item says "text".

6)in the "Edit" menu, what does "Monster behaviour"? Is it about setting their morale? About the giggler's thieves ability?

7) If I add a text on a door cell, it says:
"Strange but not fatal - Unknown text type"

8) I can't choose a graphic for an end game actuator. (This has a very low priority). Can an end actuator be activated like a pressure pad or a pushbutton (that is, by the party standing on it, or clicking on it)?This is just a question, not a suggestion.

9) For a saved game loaded in CSBuild, maybe you should put a visual information locating the party. A red cross for example would be enough for me.

10) Could you add a .txt file containing the list of the changes each time you release a package? I'm getting confused with this rapid succession of all the versions and I don't have a permanent access to internet to check the forum.
So many times when I download a new version of CSbuild and go home to test it, i can't remember what should be fixed, and I also have to test again all the bugs found in the previous version that I didn't report yet, as I don't want to report a bug that is already fixed. The text you put at the beginning of this thread would be fine, as long as it comes with the CSbuild package.

[Paul Stevens]

OK... Here we go. Wow!

==================================
1) I will change one of these. Then you will have to ask
again. Each is a bit of a hassle. Since you did not
specify which one you wanted I wrote on my card
"Replace Wall with Stairs"
==================================
2) Torch Types

Goodness knows. Let me look at it. Then I may ask
you some questions about what I should do.
==================================
3) Chargable items

Name them. Then I can fix them.
==================================
4) Mon Potion(Blue) --> Mon Potion(Stamina)

Will Do.
==================================
5) Text info in listboxes

Yes. On my list
==================================
6) "Monster Behaviour"

I have no idea. I will check into it.
==================================
7) Text on a Door cell.

I assume this is like text on an Open Cell. I can
fix that.
==================================
8) EndGame actuator...No graphic. Actuate by party?

I have no idea. I'll see what I can see.
==================================
9) Visual location of Party.

That sounds reasonable
==================================
10) Release Notes with executable.

This is probably a good idea for both of us. I will
try to remember.
==================================
11) Rapid succession of releases...confusion...trying
to remember what has been fixed....etc.

You ain't alone, fella.

One thing YOU should remember. Right now
I have 20 or so cards in my pocket for things that
I need to do. When I open the laptop, I choose one
of the cards depending on which seems like more
fun (or less pain). So, if you want your priorities to
influence me, then you better send only those things
YOU consider important. Otherwise I may choose
a project that takes a long time but that you consider
unimportant.

Does that make sense?

[beowuuf]

8) They are a specialist trigger, you have to target an affect at them, and they have to be a wall item not a floor pad (i think...this is goign on memeory fro mwhen i tested the hex)

[PicturesInTheDark]

"Items Remaining" [...] excludes things you cannot reach, for example, and wants you to put all the items in a particular place.

What should we do about this? Perhaps if you declare "DM rules" then I should list all items and ignore the Four Corbums, etc. Or I could change it
to "List CSB items" and add another "List All Items".

-> Would it not be necessary to specify a place where items should be put when building a dungeon/editing it with CSBuild? Otherwise the area might be inaccessible or maybe not even existent. So either allow to specify that in CSBuild or define a fixed area or just ignore it if no corbums are around.
(It just should not crash, maybe show a message like "Not defined for this dungeon", or similar) And there's more problems: how do you find out if items are accessible or not? Can de engine do that automatically or do you have to define (hardcode) them? That would be a not-so-easy task to automate, don't you agree? Perhaps we should talk about this separately with other people giving their opinions. Personally, I like the alternative approach and would rather have it in then out. But it seems to need more precise definitions.

add-on's to Zyx' post:

1) Change fields into walls and empty cells: I strongly support the notion with the following specifications:

In "safe mode", only walls should be allowed to be changed into empty cells directly and vice versa. In "default mode" all types of cells except teleporters and actuators should be allowed to be changed into empty cells/walls directly. In "expert" mode all cells should be allowed to be changed directly into walls/empty cells, but for teleporters and actuators there should be a security check ("You're about to replace an actuator/teleporter with a wall/an empty cell. Are you really sure you want to do this?" or something alike but shorter ;))

Would this be a way to go, Zyx, Paul?

What I definitely would suggest is to have a precise definition of the current consequences of each of the different checks in the edi|options panel - I'm still not sure what exactly they do and/or check against when trying to save a dungeon.

9) The location of the party should also be displayed as text on the right side and maybe even be searchable via "Find object in dungeon". Just a thought, not very important.

10) Release Notes. I have made a list since V0.756 I think which has all release/fix texts from the forums copied together that I could find. I can send you this list if you want me to.

Regards, PitD

[Zyx]

1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will change one of these. Then you will have to ask
again. Each is a bit of a hassle. Since you did not
specify which one you wanted I wrote on my card
"Replace Wall with Stairs"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright, here I ask again then:
a) I'd like to be able to put a pit on a wall. If the floor in the level below is a plain wall, then it would become an open room.

b) I'd like to be able to put a door on a wall.

c) I'd like to be able to put a trick wall on a wall.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"safe mode","default mode","expert mode"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personnaly I am only interested in "expert mode". I guess Paul is interested in "safe mode". So you're solution, PitD, looks like a good solution, but it is not necessary or highly prioritized in my opinion if this means a lot of work for Paul. I would be content with the "expert mode"
I agree with the necessity of explicitation of each mode for future users (or for users with short memory like me)



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
then you better send only those things
YOU consider important
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright, I'll try to prioritize my comments.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can send you this list if you want me to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, please, I'd like to.

[Paul Stevens]

To the closet for more cards.

OK...now I have four:

Stairs on Wall
Trick wall on wall
Door on wall
Pit on wall

I now have thirty-four cards to choose from when looking
for a job.

[Paul Stevens]

PitD,

If you send me that list of release notes I will put
them into the notes that come with the program
and which I hope to update with each release.

Who was that that wanted a version 1.0 a couple
months ago?

[PicturesInTheDark]

I'll send them to you - and I was not the one with Release 1.0, my conscience is clean in that respect, I just asked when you would estimate such a release ;)

Regards, PitD