CSBuild Version 0.784

[Paul Stevens]

Release notes:

--Add check for illegal entries in the decorations lists for each level.
--Remove warning for targetless EndGame Actuator.
--Allow '/' as line separator in Wall Text dialog. (For Linux)
--Double-Click item in Cell Object lists and DSA list goes directly to editor.
--Rearrange code for dungeon 'Checks' in preparation to allow user some
capability of fixing the problems. Some problems (like orphans) cannot be
repaired with the normal editing procedures.

This last item is rather extensive. My dungeons tend to not
have many errors (Built with CSBuild, you see ;-)) and therefore
this code does not get much workout here. So I am going to let
it stew for a couple weeks to see if anyone else has problems
before I actually try to add interactive code to repair any
of the errors. If you would please check your dungeons and report
problems. Look also for black smudges at the ends of lines where
I may have forgotten to remove linefeeds.

CSBuild784.rar is at dianneandpaul.net

[Zyx]

And still more questions!

On level 0, I edited the level and added all the floor decorations available, but then:

1) I can't change the number available for random placement.
2) I set 6 tiles with a Random floor decoration. When playtesting the dungeon, I only got one visible floor decoration. Same for wall decorations (4 walls, only 2 apparent decorations) Why? Is it on purpose or is it a bug?
3 ) Is there a way to automaticly set all the tiles and walls with random decorations?

[Paul Stevens]

1) I can't change the number available for random placement.

Neither can I. I'll fix it.

========================================
2)

The random decorations are placed with a finite
probability. Just to make the dungeon look a
little more 'populated' and to give you some
landmarks without using those invaluable 1024
actuators. This is not my idea.....I just translated.

I suppose we could provide a way to change the
probabilities. We have already broken any backward
compatibility. If four people say this is a good way to
spend my time, then I will do it. It would be several day's
work.
=========================================
3) No. This would be easy to do, however. I can provide
two pushbuttons on the LevelInfo page, for walls and floors.

[Zyx]

1) I forgot to ask: the number for random generation means: "the nth first decorations of the list are used for random decorations"?

2) I was just asking, I don't see it necessary, but I would like to know the probability, then.

3) Yes, please, as long as the probability is reasonnably low, this would be useful.
But to keep with the DM atmosphere, it would be great to have SET/CLEAR/TOGGLE buttons :-)

[Paul Stevens]

1) Yes.

2) Figuring that out is part of the work. You can study the
function 'SummarizeRoom....." (don't remember exactly). I
think it might be in there. It seems to place the decorations
with approximately the probablity of this forum's accepting
my posts.

3) I put in an "Everywhere" button and a "Nowhere" button
for each of floor and wall. There was no room left for a
"Toggle" button.

[Zyx]

2) I'll have a try to understand the C code, but I am pessimistic...

Some comments/suggestions:
4) When editing a group of monster, it is possible to allow several monster at the same position. However the monster check will detect it.

5) Could you add in the left tool bar a button for findind object?

6) A Suggestion: it would be very useful to have a function:
Find object activated by [combolist], similar to find object.

[Paul Stevens]

4) I should fix that.

5) Yes

6) I don't understand. Perhaps an example.

[Zyx]

6) For example: I know there are 2 gold keys in my dungeons. I would like to know which objects are using them (probably keyholes).

[Paul Stevens]

Gotcha!

[Zyx]

7) I can't add a text on stairs.
8) I can't add text on trick walls.

9) I found an important difference between CSBwin and DM PC: lord gray moves, teleports and attack. This would completely change all the dungeons using lord gray as a wall or a decoration. "Normally", lord gray should not move or teleport, and should not attack.

10) Here's a way to obtain a bug.
On a virgin floor tile, add a text.
Then add a pressure pad.
Set it to activated by: "Party possesses Object". Choose an object.
In the "Message sent when zone", leave the "With object" unchanged and put the "Without object" to "Clear".
Then browse the target to itself (the tile containing the pressure pad).
I always get an error.


11) When I put on the same wall a text and a pushbutton, there is no way to reorder them. The text is always at the bottom and it's always the only object visible and active. Is it normal, doctor?

[Paul Stevens]

11) Text + Actuator on same wall.

The Original Atari code from FTL always put actuators
before objects in the lists. In fact, when searching for
actuators in a cell, it quit searching when it encountered
something else. Perhaps this was to save time....I don't
know the motivation.

I have been changing this little by little. I have been watching
for disasters that are the result of my changes. So far I have
seen no bad effects. So I will change CSBuild to allow you
to reorder the items. I think CSBwin will tolerate this (Old
versions will not). If we find that CSBwin complains in some
circumstances then we will have to fix CSBwin if that is possible
and remove the CSBuild 'feature' if CSBwin cannot be fixed.
All of these 'features' are nice but they are perfectly capable
of introducing problems that are hard to find, difficult to
reproduce, and very annoying. So it is best to go slow.

[Paul Stevens]

7) Text on stairs. I suppose that is reasonable. I'll
try to do it.

8) Text on trick walls. What is going to happen here???
If the party walks on that cell then the text will appear
in the text scrolling area. Will it not? And if the wall is
visible then it will appear on the wall. Won't it? Tell me
waht you think will happen and if it is 'good'.

9) Does Lord Grey move, etc when you use the DM graphics.dat?
If so, perhaps I can make his movement subject to the
'DM Rules' not having been selected.

10) I can cause an error there, too. Thanks. I'll fix it (I hope...
Someday there will be a problem I can't fix and we will have to
discard CSBuild and start over!).

[Zyx]

8) It should be exactly as you describe it, supposing the text is not hidden.

9) I am using the DM graphics.dat and Lord Grey moves.

[Paul Stevens]

OK. Before I do something really dumb....Four questions.

Lord Grey is the fellow who congratulates you when you have
completed CSB. Is that right?

In the original DMs (PC and Atari and Amiga), Lord Grey appears
in some way. Is that right? And he does not move. Is that
right?

If I am right on these three questions then there must be a
special case in the code. I can put in such a special case if
you are playing DM Rules. Does that make sense?

[beowuuf]

The thing is the grey lord shouldn't move no matter CSB or DM - it is the same immobile monster in both endings

It sounds like somehow the grey lord graphic is being associated with lord librasulus's or chaos's monster...isn't that more a graphics.dat problem?

[Paul Stevens]

In the ending only? I think ALL monsters are immobile
during the ending. Lord Grey is immobile during the ending
when using CSBwin is he not? So I think CSBwin is acting
as it should.

I believe at least one dungeon design depends on his acting
very much like a 'normal' monster during the 'non-ending'
portion of the game.

So you have not yet convinced me that CSBwin should be
changed in this regard.

[Zyx]

Ok, we're talking about the same guy. He only appears in the endings in both DM and CSB, no matter which platforms. With an editor you can use it as an editor.
It is important to have it as an immobile, pacific monster because at least 4 dungeons are designed this way:
teamdungeon, conflux, mildew and enfers.
It is also the only pacific monster so it is of great value for a dungeon designer.
But... I don't understand why its fixity and pacifism should be related to DM or CSB. Besides, I am not aware of which dungeon needs a moving, aggressive lord grey. As a last ressort, an option to choose its behavior could be added, but independently of DM rules or CSB rules.

BTW, is it possible to save the DM rules option default for a dungeon with CSBuild so the user don't have to switch it manually when he starts CSBwin?

Also, I would just recall you that with the DM graphics.dat, a torch put on the floor as the graphic of a staff. Is it normal?

[PicturesInTheDark]

Hmm. You obviously did not play "The tomb of King Hissssa" yet, Zyx. There were an two grey Lords moving around and bugging me mightily in the final level when I already had to dodge and run from hordes of demons... is it really defined the grey Lord is peaceful and immobile or was he just never used otherwise?

Regards, PitD

(7)

[beowuuf]

nope, that'#s lord order - he's dressed in armour and throws fireballs ; )

and he is really immobile and immoveable and invulnerable

[PicturesInTheDark]

Hmm not sure what you meant - I rechecked "Tomb of King Hissssa" - that is the grey lord. Whereas if you wanted to answer my last question that may be quite so. The question is: can anybody prove from the code what grey/order were originally meant to do or has their "potential" just not been exploited so far?

Regards, PitD

(2)

[Zyx]

Tomb of King Hissssa:
I played it with PC DM if I remember well and lord grey was not moving. What's more, he congratulated me, so he was not aggressive either...
But I guess you played it with CSBwin, that's why it was moving.
If you open the dungeon with CSbuild, you will see lord grey was designed to stay in front of you while you see some congratulations in the text zone.
Look here:
15(1,26)
15(3,26)
15(12,1)

[PicturesInTheDark]

You're absolutely correct. This little detail made the last level of the dungeon a living hell since both of the grey lords kept teleporting near me while demons attacked me - could hardly find a place to sleep at all and died plenty of times.

Thanks,

regards, PitD

[beowuuf]

sorry, confusing that with other dungeons...there are ones with lord orders at the end attacking you

8