Some Suggestions

[sucinum]

-"Do you really want to close this Program" - i just shut away about 2h of playing by clicking 1 cm above the hero name, which discourages a bit.
-put items in backpack by clicking on the health bars (like in dm 2)
-a suggestion about the loss of stats in dm/csb. maybe this could be dependant by the levels the characters got instead of having 2 rules. in dm, the champions have 5 levels in average, which makes them lose 5-8 stats. in csb, it's around 20 levels they got -> loss of 20-30 stats (i dind't calculate that too exactly). that would make one button obsolete
-graphics - is it possible to expand the graphics.dat to have different tiles for walls and floors (the floor depends on the wall next to it), decorations and more items in one dungeon? like all items from dm, csb and dm2? i have no clue if that's possible, but i would like it very much this would of course make the editor a bit more complicated, too - but in the end, it would be a cool thing

just some stuff which came into my mind, next to the 1st one none of it is too important, but i didn't want to lose it

[Paul Stevens]

i just shut away about 2h of playing by clicking

Good thing you had the recorder running, huh?

I agree. Carded. How about I ask if you have not saved in the
last 30 seconds? I dislike those "Are you sure" things when it
is not needed. So often that my fingers do it without my telling
them to do it.

Items in backpack. We use the health bars in PocketPC to
get to inventory. And it has some quirks. I have to watch out
for dead people, full backpacks. What if hand is empty? Should
I put it in a chest if there is room? I don't know about this.
What does everyone else think about changing the playing
mechanics this way?

Losing stats when Reincarnating? I think that is what you are
referring to. I think this would be relatively simple to do.
But I would never think of doing it without a general consensus
from the dozen or so more-active members of this group.
And then I would ask for a ***VERY*** precise algorithm
before I started to make the change.

Expanding the graphics seems to me to be pretty much
beyond what is reasonable. I think you better use one of the
more modern clones if you want to do anything at all clever
with the graphics. As I recall, the engine looked like it had
originally been designed to have different wall and floor graphics
for each level. Wasn't EOB like this?? But the graphics in this
program are totally beyond my comprehension. I don't think
I better play with them.

[beowuuf]

Reincarnating - in dm you gain stats proportional to the levels you lost, as it's a viable trade off option. Initial charatcers with their stats, or characters with less levels but more stats. And your health/stamina/mana remains untouched
In CSB your characters are being reduced to a DM-like starting level, so it's like a 'challenge me' option so everything gets spanked down
I don't see how you easily do that in one...I forget how RTC manages it, actually

[Zyx]

-put items in backpack by clicking on the health bars (like in dm 2)

I don't think this change would be right because DM is a real-time engine and you have to feel a rush of adrenaline each time you put your nose into your backback and stop being alert to your surroundings.
Minimalizing the time of access to the backpack is one of the tactics you need to learn, it shouldn't be solved by the software!

[Paul Stevens]

One of the big problems with changing the reincarnating/
stats business, at least for me, is that as soon as I change
something like that I get letters in the mail saying that
there is a bug in CSBwin because it is different than some
other version of DM or CSB.

My final line of defense has alway s been that it is the way it
is because it copied the "Official" Atari release of CSB. Some
things I can change without such arguments because they are
obvious bug-fixes but this stats business is such a subjective
thing (that makes little difference in my mind) that I lose my
best argument. And it becomes like the Amiga vs. Atari fights.

One thing that can work is to provide a way for the dungeon
designer to specify the algorithm. In that way, all the blame
can be shifted away from me. We currently have a way to
specify DM-Rules by default. Maybe we should supply a "Custom
Rules" option. A matrix of linear equations (or quadratic or
whatever you need).

I really don't understand the need for change.

[sucinum]

there is no need for a change, i just thought it would be easier. of course, people who design dungeons should know that, but then come i and forget this button all the time
@zyx: i even think that it' quicker to store stuff without the healthbars, i always use a "quickmule" and the right mouse button, but if it doesn't matter on speed, you can sort 1 click easier. i don't know if this is worth any coding effort, though.
ok, yesterday i was fried in some corridor of evil-thingie while stuffing something in my backpack. my fault

[sucinum]

next suggestion:
i think, it would be quite funny if texts could "know" the name of the character.
for example i use a floor text for some ambience, saying this:
"you have the feeling you forgot something"
since the player is controlling theron and not the party, i think 3rd person would be better. of course you can't know if the player renames, so how about some placeholder:
"<player 1> says: i think we forgot something" (in csbuild)
in game, it would be displayed:
"zed says: i think..." (assuming zed is the 1st character chosen).
of course, <player 2/3/4> won't work always because the party might be smaller, but if the number isn't present, the game could simply call the name of the char with the highest number. not to forget <player x> which choses a random player.
just a suggestion, i don't know if that is doable and worth the effort.

[Paul Stevens]

It is not a bad idea and it should be doable. Unfortunately,
the text is kept in 5-bit nibbles and does not contain the
special characters. Like the broken brackets that you propose.
But that is not a showstopper. For delimiters we could use
a very improbable sequence of characters.

Code: Select all

QMQPLAYER1QNQ SAYS...I THINK WE ARE LOST.

Any error whatsoever would display the text literally. So it
is next to impossible that such a sequence would occur normally.

I added it to my pile but it has a lot of thing in front of it.

[sucinum]

no need to hurry, i can include this lateron in 1.6
is there any character allowed next to capital letters and a fullstop? a comma would be nice sometimes but that doesn't seem to work.

another suggestion:
i'd really like to copy/paste some parts of a dungeon inside the dungeon or even on to another one.
this would also allow to include a "basic-kit" with stuff like torch-holders, switch-buttons (i still don't know how to build these ), small riddles like moving pits or things like a shop, where dungeon creators could chose from and copy it into their dungeon and modify it.
this would allow even technophobiacs to create their own dungeons

[Paul Stevens]

There is some capability to copy individual objects.
I might be able to copy/paste the entire contents of
one of the corners (or walls) of a cell. And maybe
copy/paste an entire cell. Not too sure what these
things mean.

Does copying cell A and pasting it in
cell B mean to remove the entire contens of B before
pasting or does it mean to add the contents to the existing
contents?

When copying the objects in a coner of one room and pasting
it into another corner of some room I guess it would mean to
add the clipboard objects to the current objects at that location.

But cutting/pasting entire puzzles seems a bit beyond what we
could specify, much less accomplish.

Let us 'simply' rid our little world of technophobiacs. Let us
provide tutoring to make these people bold designers. Believe
me, you have nothing to fear but fear itself. Let us start a
CSBuild tutorial and add explanations/solutions one at a time
as needed. Where should we start?

[sucinum]

copy/paste should replace the existing content imho, this avoids people making strange things with this feature
of course, copying actuators from dungeon to another would destroy their target, which is not a good solution, so maybe copying riddles is not a too good idea. the only solution i find is to only allow to copy a whole level and all actuators target the same level - this should work, but to be honest, i don't see any sense there.
but you are right - in the end, it's not worth the effort and a turorial is better.
since csbuild is look and feel, i have no problems next to more complicated puzzles which require more than one actuator. i teleport around apples to avoid thinking too much about it and to visualize the mechanics of the puzzle (if the download worked now, you can see in the dungeon.dat ). it's a nice workaround and because csbuild/csbwin has no limits of anything (teleporters, items, actuators) i hit so far, i think i'll stick with this solution.
plus the stuff with wall-objects which change their look (like levers, torch holders), which i never got. but after 4 dungeons now i'm at least advanced in creating, surely no expert.

[beowuuf]

Other people can do the basics. I think you need to put some simple examples of DSA usuage. I've only followed conversations of them from the outside, so they still confuse me in the commands/states you can give them.

Simple items:
Torch holders (expands to any item release/toggler)
Constant weight activated (since CSBuild doesn'ty explicitly state it)
Levers/push switches (two states)

Complex:
AND/Or gate usuage (filius switches and moving pit examples)
DSAs

What else?

[Paul Stevens]

I received private mail from you with a half-dozen problems
in CSBuild and CSBwin. Now you want me start a tutorial
in half-dozen different subjects. Gad. I was happily contemplating
the problem of putting multilple decorations on a wall. So much
for happy contemplation.

I am overloaded.

Priority:
1) The bugs. Less fun but most important.
2) Eating
3) Tutorials. People have to be able to (ab)use the tools.
4) Games index.
5) Fun (for me) suggestions.
6) Fun (for you (plural)) suggestions.

Do you think we will ever get to step 6)?

The tutorials. It might be a good idea for more than one
person to explain these 'tricks' like torch holders. Sometimes
different viewpoints can complement (suplement?) one another
in a way that is greater than the sum of the parts. Anyone who
wants to send me words/diagrams for any general techniques or
particular problem is encouraged to do so. I'll add a 'Tutorials'
page at dianneandpaul.net.

[sucinum]

>>I received private mail from you with a half-dozen problems
in CSBuild and CSBwin

me? i only sent something about the poison-thingie-shooters as you requested
btw, i know know why my party died - one of the shooters shots fireballs instead of poison stuff (just had a closer look at it), so no problem next to the already known poison-thingies.

>>I am overloaded.

i didn't want that
i created 4 dungeons without knowing how to use levers or torch-holders, so i don't need that knowledge too quick.
i think, the hex-tut for dmute by beowuuf would be good as a skeletton for atutorial - csbuild requires much less hex-editing than dmute (didn't need any at all), you can click the most features, so the tutorial would only get smaller and easier
i just returned to dungeon-creating after 2 years and found csbuild to be a very mighty and easy to handle editor, so it's only details i am suggesting, altogether i'm very comfortable with it.

[beowuuf]

nope, me *stupid crashing computer*
And 7) sleeping! Also good!

I have no wish to overload you! Gambit and sucinum sound like they have cool ideas, any fun suggestions they've made that pique your interest should be near the top of the list.

Of the bugs I sent, I think only the champion (stats rejection) one was a worry.

Edit: I think I solved it, I sent you a mail and pm. There is still the multiple texts thing.

Everything else I was out on a small limb, and the engine didn't seem to like it as much as the editor. If they come up again from another source from someone with a dungeon coming out, hopefully you have a few leads. But I don't think they need addressed.

The idea of splitting simple and comlpex was anyone can do the simple ones. The complex ones need someone who knows, such as yourself or PITD or zyx to explian. Personally I do not need the guide anytime soon. Any specific problems I can just post here.

The games index - once the encyclopaedia forum comes back the downlaod sources will be back. My HD is a mess. By then I should have finished playtesting and will chip in more. You've offered your webspace, that's enough! No one has commented on the simple template for the downloads so can follow throguh with that.

[sucinum]

The idea of splitting simple and complex was anyone can do the simple ones.

i already started with the shop-tut
funny enough that 3 people would create 3 different shops, anyone interested in should now be able to create a shop rather easy - and even has the choice, how complex he wants it to be.

[beowuuf]

I was trying to create a fourth but I seem to have broken it before it started : (