As I was creating a dungeon I started to think if there is any situation (except possibly for the endings and, of course wallitems that destroy keys or coins or such) in DM or CSB where you can permanently lose objects so that you can't get them back? I don't remember any such places in DM, but what about CSB?
Do you think it is OK to include such places in custom dungeons, where you can throw things but the party can't reach? What if player uses a quest object on a pressure pad on the other side but can never reach the other side without the object? It is, of course, silly to use important-looking things for this, but at least in DM it seems to be impossible to screw up. Should custom dungeons also be "safe"?
Is it possible to lose objects?
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There was actually reference to this in another thread somewhere
It is possible to throw keys or the corbomite through grating doors, etc in DM and stick yourself
I think that this topic was originated in a CSB thread recently, so I think it was again thigns like throwing stuff through doors.
I remmeber one of PaulH's dungeons, i stuck myself near the very end, because there was no way to recover objects from a throwing puzzle, and since it was a damage linked throwing puzzle which i guessed but the exit was behind, which i didn't, then I lost objects I naturally assumed i would get back (keys that had the lightness to be able to traverse the long distance)
I think in general that if it is not obvious that you will lose what you use, especially if you have made certain important objects obscure, then I would include at least a one-off way of getting them back. There is nothign worse than sticking yourself without warning, or doing an action you assume will be undoable that doesn't come back to haunt you for much later
It is possible to throw keys or the corbomite through grating doors, etc in DM and stick yourself
I think that this topic was originated in a CSB thread recently, so I think it was again thigns like throwing stuff through doors.
I remmeber one of PaulH's dungeons, i stuck myself near the very end, because there was no way to recover objects from a throwing puzzle, and since it was a damage linked throwing puzzle which i guessed but the exit was behind, which i didn't, then I lost objects I naturally assumed i would get back (keys that had the lightness to be able to traverse the long distance)
I think in general that if it is not obvious that you will lose what you use, especially if you have made certain important objects obscure, then I would include at least a one-off way of getting them back. There is nothign worse than sticking yourself without warning, or doing an action you assume will be undoable that doesn't come back to haunt you for much later
I agree that idiot-proofness is something to strive for. Sadly it limits some throwing puzzles, but I guess having a monster generators, that generate eg. rock piles could solve the dilemma.
In CSB you can get stuck forever in the very beginning
The teleporters in the wormroom only affect the party, so all you have to do is throw the GOR coins and eg. the corbums into the niches so there you are Of course, who would do such a thing? No one, so perhaps 100% idiot-proofness is not needed.
Beowuuf, which thread are you referring to?
In CSB you can get stuck forever in the very beginning
The teleporters in the wormroom only affect the party, so all you have to do is throw the GOR coins and eg. the corbums into the niches so there you are Of course, who would do such a thing? No one, so perhaps 100% idiot-proofness is not needed.Beowuuf, which thread are you referring to?
In CSBWin and the amiga version, those teleporters do teleport the items, i remember throwing an item and watch it constantly move into the teleporter untill it fell, works unusually well with the vorpal blade for some reason...*shrug*. Oh, and you can also blow open that gate thats infront of you when you start. I don't think you can throw keys through doors, so i don't think its possible to get stuck or lose items in CSB, not that i can think of at the moment anyway. 
Interesting. I actually DID lose objects in Dungeon Master II. Back when I only had the demo, I got REALLY scared of the dungeon area because I almost died in the pits (the area is the fortress near the graveyard in the full version). I ran back inside the ancestral home and then did something stupid.
I stood inside, facing the closed door, with the key in the keyhole next to me. I opened the door. In rapid sequence, I closed the door, grabbed the key, and chucked it out the doorway before the door closed. The door was now locked and the key was stuck outside. FOREVER.
I stood inside, facing the closed door, with the key in the keyhole next to me. I opened the door. In rapid sequence, I closed the door, grabbed the key, and chucked it out the doorway before the door closed. The door was now locked and the key was stuck outside. FOREVER.
The amiga version of DM I tried throwing standard keys through the portcullises for ages to see if it would work and it didn't let me. I imagine non-key keys you could though like the corbum, but I never tried it.
There's a few things in DM you can do before the game has a chance to react, such as an alternative solution (bug) to the puzzle in the room with the pit, the switches, and the the teleporter, where you have to get the portcullis to open to get the key. It's the room with the floating eye in it...
There's a few things in DM you can do before the game has a chance to react, such as an alternative solution (bug) to the puzzle in the room with the pit, the switches, and the the teleporter, where you have to get the portcullis to open to get the key. It's the room with the floating eye in it...