First pass through a dark little short story just to see if I could produce soemthing like this
Available here
All comments encouraged and appreciated - like/hate story, engaging or not, pacing right or wrong, anything confusing, seriously bad writing...anything! : )
Blood and Sand
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BloodFromStone
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BloodFromStone
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I wasn't exactly sure what the narrator meant here. Was it because she wouldn't have killed Kal if she hadn't been in love with the narrator?She stared at me as if I had forced her here, as if I had forced her to kill the man whose blood I was careful to avoid as I walked to her.
And of course I had. I had driven that knife into Kal Toreth.
There were a few other instances, but I can't remember them offhand. I'll read through it again soon and let you know more examples. None of them were in the fight scenes, though. The fights were very clear and well written.
Pretty much...or at least as far as he is concerned at that moment.
I wanted to keep the characters and characteristics nebulous, so you could easily see her as driven, opportunistic, a survivor or simply willing to do whatever it would take to achieve a normal life before that moment.
Hopefully I didn't leave it so nebulous that you would see why the main character would think that her actions were beyond what he had expected, and attribute love to her actions in killing Kal. Hopefully I left it nebulous enough that you could think he was wrong later, and that the ending might have gone another way until the end.
Also, I don't like pigeonholing people...people do things for many conflicting reasons which makes them interesting : ) The fun is seeing how everyone tries to see the patterns and learn the ways of another, tries to see what they want sometimes. That makes it special when you really do know someone.
I wanted to keep the characters and characteristics nebulous, so you could easily see her as driven, opportunistic, a survivor or simply willing to do whatever it would take to achieve a normal life before that moment.
Hopefully I didn't leave it so nebulous that you would see why the main character would think that her actions were beyond what he had expected, and attribute love to her actions in killing Kal. Hopefully I left it nebulous enough that you could think he was wrong later, and that the ending might have gone another way until the end.
Also, I don't like pigeonholing people...people do things for many conflicting reasons which makes them interesting : ) The fun is seeing how everyone tries to see the patterns and learn the ways of another, tries to see what they want sometimes. That makes it special when you really do know someone.
I was kind of enraged near the end, because i wanted the character to get super strength and change everything, to break out of this unjust world into freedom, possibly by a high death toll.
But the situation the character is in is ultimate. There is a higher force that makes the rules,so it would be no good (unrealistic) if he could escape- in the end, everything is fine again(correct ending), somehow, because nothing can do him any harm now, he is determined as one can get - a human fighting machine-He carries on.
But the situation the character is in is ultimate. There is a higher force that makes the rules,so it would be no good (unrealistic) if he could escape- in the end, everything is fine again(correct ending), somehow, because nothing can do him any harm now, he is determined as one can get - a human fighting machine-He carries on.
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cowsmanaut
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a few details and I've only hit the first page. 
however you know me and my critiques already 
You always have cool ideas but it's words that you stumble over here and there. The things I've seen here are Beautific.. doesn't seem natural. I think the sentance could be recomposed to allow for beautifull. Doctors is likley not a word one would use in the era you appear to have chosen. I think preists and nuns at the apothecary would have attended to his wounds. from my memory of my english teacher standing over me.. we're not allowed to start a sentance with "but".. You've got a few. also redundancy in comments can also offbalance the reader "..eyes looking down on me. Looking down on me .." I know what you are going for but I think something like "eyes looking down on me. A look filled with contempt...etc"
I'll get to the rest of it.. certainly interesting so far.. and I'll post more when I'm done.
moo
however you know me and my critiques already You always have cool ideas but it's words that you stumble over here and there. The things I've seen here are Beautific.. doesn't seem natural. I think the sentance could be recomposed to allow for beautifull. Doctors is likley not a word one would use in the era you appear to have chosen. I think preists and nuns at the apothecary would have attended to his wounds. from my memory of my english teacher standing over me.. we're not allowed to start a sentance with "but".. You've got a few. also redundancy in comments can also offbalance the reader "..eyes looking down on me. Looking down on me .." I know what you are going for but I think something like "eyes looking down on me. A look filled with contempt...etc"
I'll get to the rest of it.. certainly interesting so far.. and I'll post more when I'm done.
moo
not a problem critique away
lol, what era do you think i'm trying to catch? hopefully i've left it vague, so therefore you can imagine roman times, you can imagine a fantasty era, you can even put it down to some weird culture back in history we haven't found yet. So the doctors could be real 'doctors' I'll think about this, but nuns and apothecaries are certainly not what i would imagine...i'm no biologist but i know that the wounds and healing times i've put in are probably stupid, and would need tweaked even now... let alone making it in some sawbones era without skills. I imagine the owner as a man or resources though...the fighters would be tended by the best : ) Or maybe not...
Yeah, it's hard for sentences sometimes. Some of it is my bad and i need to tighten it, others are me tryign to deliberately add the rounding twirling thoughts he would be voicing.
Can you explain the beautific vs beautiful though? I'm intrigued!
Other things like the 'but'...that's pure me. I don't care about proper english here, but i want to know if otherpople think in sentences and concepts the way i do. For example, i wouldn't go: "I want to have a sweet, but I shouldn't, so I guess i won't then.." I would actually think:
"I want a sweet..."
"But you can't. So I guess I won't then..." Like an interrupting voice. Not grammatically correct, but that's how my thoughts would flow...
Anyway, a wordy answer to your wordy comments - more, please : )
lol, what era do you think i'm trying to catch? hopefully i've left it vague, so therefore you can imagine roman times, you can imagine a fantasty era, you can even put it down to some weird culture back in history we haven't found yet. So the doctors could be real 'doctors' I'll think about this, but nuns and apothecaries are certainly not what i would imagine...i'm no biologist but i know that the wounds and healing times i've put in are probably stupid, and would need tweaked even now... let alone making it in some sawbones era without skills. I imagine the owner as a man or resources though...the fighters would be tended by the best : ) Or maybe not...
Yeah, it's hard for sentences sometimes. Some of it is my bad and i need to tighten it, others are me tryign to deliberately add the rounding twirling thoughts he would be voicing.
Can you explain the beautific vs beautiful though? I'm intrigued!
Other things like the 'but'...that's pure me. I don't care about proper english here, but i want to know if otherpople think in sentences and concepts the way i do. For example, i wouldn't go: "I want to have a sweet, but I shouldn't, so I guess i won't then.." I would actually think:
"I want a sweet..."
"But you can't. So I guess I won't then..." Like an interrupting voice. Not grammatically correct, but that's how my thoughts would flow...
Anyway, a wordy answer to your wordy comments - more, please : )
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cowsmanaut
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"all I could see was her strangely beatific face in unconsciousness" .. right here.. I don't understand how beautific needs to be used here. "all I could see was her strangely beatifull face in unconsciousness" also the wording again here seems a bit odd. his unconsciousness? or hers? I know it should be hers. However, its not 100%.. Just the flow I guess while I read.. it's not as though there is anything specifically wrong with what you've written but in some cases it's hard to follow over the words smoothly... if you get my meaning.
I read it.. but it's not fast and smooth.
As for the doctors.. I had assumed.. I guess erroneously that it was gladiators.. roman era.. Which mean apothecary, preist, nuns, etc.. those who dealt with the sick and prayed over them.. sewed up their wounds.. etc.. modern medicine wasn't really the way of things..
I also get the thought process.. talking like you think. That works well for posts on the forum. I mean I'm not following any particular rules even now as I type. However, I think that for a work of literature.. if you are to have them talk.. it is ok to break wiht the rules ie "but I don't think I can do it" where it is said.. however, if in explenation or thought. I think that it breaks with traditional writing schemes and may not be as readily accepted.
not that you are looking for that.. I'm sure.. it was just a test. I do think though, that you plan to one day be published? We've talked about that before. Just might be good habit to start. or I could be completely wrong..
moo
I read it.. but it's not fast and smooth.
As for the doctors.. I had assumed.. I guess erroneously that it was gladiators.. roman era.. Which mean apothecary, preist, nuns, etc.. those who dealt with the sick and prayed over them.. sewed up their wounds.. etc.. modern medicine wasn't really the way of things..
I also get the thought process.. talking like you think. That works well for posts on the forum. I mean I'm not following any particular rules even now as I type. However, I think that for a work of literature.. if you are to have them talk.. it is ok to break wiht the rules ie "but I don't think I can do it" where it is said.. however, if in explenation or thought. I think that it breaks with traditional writing schemes and may not be as readily accepted.
not that you are looking for that.. I'm sure.. it was just a test. I do think though, that you plan to one day be published? We've talked about that before. Just might be good habit to start. or I could be completely wrong..
moo
So tired..why am I still up?
Don't worry, this is me tryign to train myself in two disciplines, so all comments are welcome
a) manage to actually write as i think . This is what you have here, a first pass draft where i tried to catch the thoughts that i ususally just think on without being able to record properly, or mean to but then have new thoughts. I've tried and failed before with even short stories to keep the passion going, so this was one i tried to stick out.
b) thoughts going to actually prose, structured, paced and understandable. That's next, and i have tended to not follow through with that yet, since i always get stuck in part a).
I can see where i think its wrong. I need to be able to get out of my head and forsee where other people might think it is wrong. The hardest thing is the world...is it vague enough, in a short story, that people can put their own ideas onto it and get into it without me having to blow most of the tension describing a city structure and place of the games and even daily life for them? Are there enough hooks to draw the imagination in, enough quirks to give characters life without them being distracting?
Anyway, thanks for the comments, i will be trying and tightening up and play with things. But since the character has no characteristics for the most part (not even a name!) I will probably still try to find a nice rythmn with the words to keep this strange lilting exploration of his life.
The trouble is as soon as i see some rules, i immediately don't see the need to obey them. So should i try to discipline myself into tighter 'proper' writing when i don't feel it appropriate?
Too tired, time to sleep then start the long new years celebrating : )
Don't worry, this is me tryign to train myself in two disciplines, so all comments are welcome
a) manage to actually write as i think . This is what you have here, a first pass draft where i tried to catch the thoughts that i ususally just think on without being able to record properly, or mean to but then have new thoughts. I've tried and failed before with even short stories to keep the passion going, so this was one i tried to stick out.
b) thoughts going to actually prose, structured, paced and understandable. That's next, and i have tended to not follow through with that yet, since i always get stuck in part a).
I can see where i think its wrong. I need to be able to get out of my head and forsee where other people might think it is wrong. The hardest thing is the world...is it vague enough, in a short story, that people can put their own ideas onto it and get into it without me having to blow most of the tension describing a city structure and place of the games and even daily life for them? Are there enough hooks to draw the imagination in, enough quirks to give characters life without them being distracting?
Anyway, thanks for the comments, i will be trying and tightening up and play with things. But since the character has no characteristics for the most part (not even a name!) I will probably still try to find a nice rythmn with the words to keep this strange lilting exploration of his life.
The trouble is as soon as i see some rules, i immediately don't see the need to obey them. So should i try to discipline myself into tighter 'proper' writing when i don't feel it appropriate?
Too tired, time to sleep then start the long new years celebrating : )
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BloodFromStone
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Tom Hatfield
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Sounds like you had a crush on someone, Beowuuf.
Never underestimate the communicative power of proper grammar. Best-selling authors worldwide have made millions of dollars because they know the rules, and they know how to use them to their advantage. Read some works by Michael Crichton, Stephen King, Clive Barker, or Dean Koontz. (Koontz in particular is _amazing_ at affecting sympathy for psychopaths.)
Style does not mean breaking the rules of grammar. It means putting them to work for your story. This applies to narrative. Here's an example from a story I wrote:
________________________________________
As I stare at all the strangers making their way through darkened streets, I find myself wondering who they have loved, and who they’ve lost, and how indifferent the city is to all of it. How indifferent the world is. We came here to make a better life for ourselves, and we lost everything that counts. When the line separating biology and technology becomes thinner by the day, we find ourselves redefining what it means to be human. We ask where the body ends and the mind begins — but it’s not the mind that makes us human.
________________________________________
On the other hand, you've demonstrated a great deal of courage publishing your work here for everyone to see and criticize. This is something I could never do. Anyway, I didn't read much of your story --- to be honest, I can stand amateur writing specifically because so many aspiring writers ignore proper grammar. . . like it's "trendy" to disregard what traditional writers have valued since the dawn of written language. (I mean no personal offense. This is merely an observation I've made over the years.)
I will tell you this: you have no business writing at all unless you've read the Elements of Style, by William Strunk Jr. and E.B. White. Every person I've met who's read this book agrees that it's drastically altered their perspectives on writing, including mine. I implore you to buy a copy if you haven't already. This goes for ALL writers, whether you're a hobbyist, a college student, or an aspiring best-seller.
Oops. As I just realized this was your first draft, you can safely disregard much of what I've said. (I'll keep it here for the people who need it.) In that case, I have a personal suggestion: NEVER show unfinished work to anyone but the love of your life. You wouldn't want anyone to complain how bad you smell just as you're stepping into the shower, would you? Wait until your first revision and you can avoid uninformed comments like mine.
Never underestimate the communicative power of proper grammar. Best-selling authors worldwide have made millions of dollars because they know the rules, and they know how to use them to their advantage. Read some works by Michael Crichton, Stephen King, Clive Barker, or Dean Koontz. (Koontz in particular is _amazing_ at affecting sympathy for psychopaths.)
Style does not mean breaking the rules of grammar. It means putting them to work for your story. This applies to narrative. Here's an example from a story I wrote:
________________________________________
As I stare at all the strangers making their way through darkened streets, I find myself wondering who they have loved, and who they’ve lost, and how indifferent the city is to all of it. How indifferent the world is. We came here to make a better life for ourselves, and we lost everything that counts. When the line separating biology and technology becomes thinner by the day, we find ourselves redefining what it means to be human. We ask where the body ends and the mind begins — but it’s not the mind that makes us human.
________________________________________
On the other hand, you've demonstrated a great deal of courage publishing your work here for everyone to see and criticize. This is something I could never do. Anyway, I didn't read much of your story --- to be honest, I can stand amateur writing specifically because so many aspiring writers ignore proper grammar. . . like it's "trendy" to disregard what traditional writers have valued since the dawn of written language. (I mean no personal offense. This is merely an observation I've made over the years.)
I will tell you this: you have no business writing at all unless you've read the Elements of Style, by William Strunk Jr. and E.B. White. Every person I've met who's read this book agrees that it's drastically altered their perspectives on writing, including mine. I implore you to buy a copy if you haven't already. This goes for ALL writers, whether you're a hobbyist, a college student, or an aspiring best-seller.
Oops. As I just realized this was your first draft, you can safely disregard much of what I've said. (I'll keep it here for the people who need it.) In that case, I have a personal suggestion: NEVER show unfinished work to anyone but the love of your life. You wouldn't want anyone to complain how bad you smell just as you're stepping into the shower, would you? Wait until your first revision and you can avoid uninformed comments like mine.
lol, crush? huh? well, there was that summer romance that ended when someone stabbed me...
Yeah, as it was my first pass i was more interested in gettign the flow of thoughts, but i fully appreciate the need for grammar. Buts in the wrong place I perhaps don't worry about as much in first person speak, but the novels i am trying to push myself to write are not. As such i am definitely going to need to tighten both my bad initial typing, then my use of language.
I fully appreciate that writing is no easier than any other art or work, so I am pleased for all critiques. I'll definitely look into the book you mentioned!
I really want to build up my editing and writing abilities, but really those can only come if i can get the discipline to write and carry through ideas to some initial conclusion!
Lol, i don't think it's all that courageous in putting work up here - this forum has many people will talent and also a remarkable ability to express it. Also i tend to be either a harshest critic or arrogant in measure with my work, so either way I'm more interested in knowing if what I like is interestign to others. I think it's more courageous to show work to a publisher or whatever... i am no where near even thinking of doing that, and am impressed by people who are!
Yeah, as it was my first pass i was more interested in gettign the flow of thoughts, but i fully appreciate the need for grammar. Buts in the wrong place I perhaps don't worry about as much in first person speak, but the novels i am trying to push myself to write are not. As such i am definitely going to need to tighten both my bad initial typing, then my use of language.
I fully appreciate that writing is no easier than any other art or work, so I am pleased for all critiques. I'll definitely look into the book you mentioned!
I really want to build up my editing and writing abilities, but really those can only come if i can get the discipline to write and carry through ideas to some initial conclusion!
Lol, i don't think it's all that courageous in putting work up here - this forum has many people will talent and also a remarkable ability to express it. Also i tend to be either a harshest critic or arrogant in measure with my work, so either way I'm more interested in knowing if what I like is interestign to others. I think it's more courageous to show work to a publisher or whatever... i am no where near even thinking of doing that, and am impressed by people who are!
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Tom Hatfield
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It's true. Writing is a skill, and as such it must be exercised and refined, lest it becomes stale. I haven't written anything creative in a very long time, but I keep a personal journal --- more of a diary, I guess --- which keeps my skill sharp. I'd recommend this practice to anyone else who aspires to excel at writing. (Actually, I keep a journal because it lets me collect and organize my thoughts, but it really does improve writing ability, as well as typing speed.)
Bah. Dumping your writing on a public forum is about as courageous --- or audacious --- as it gets. You'd probably get kinder replies if you show it to your family, but you'll get honest replies if you show it to the world. Sometimes it's hard to swallow the fact that there are people who are better than we are at just about everything --- writing, singing, graphic design, etc. It makes me feel petty and hopeless, but there's no such thing. As long as you have breath, you have not failed at life. A friend taught me this. It's something I must keep reminding myself.
Keep up the work, good and otherwise.
Bah. Dumping your writing on a public forum is about as courageous --- or audacious --- as it gets. You'd probably get kinder replies if you show it to your family, but you'll get honest replies if you show it to the world. Sometimes it's hard to swallow the fact that there are people who are better than we are at just about everything --- writing, singing, graphic design, etc. It makes me feel petty and hopeless, but there's no such thing. As long as you have breath, you have not failed at life. A friend taught me this. It's something I must keep reminding myself.
Keep up the work, good and otherwise.
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BloodFromStone
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yeah, people can't come over and punch you repeatidly for producing crap over the internet!
tom: yeah, the feeling 'wow, people can do this so much better' is pretty much how i feel about the stuff i am doing, especiallt for the novels. But then, it really is just for me, which is funny, so basically i am just interested in getting out all these ideas and doing it as well as i can. So even when i look at it and go 'gah, no one would ever want to read this' i can just shrug, because it is a purely selfish endeavour to produce soemthign that surprises me, makes me go 'wow, i thought and wrote that...interesting...'
tom: yeah, the feeling 'wow, people can do this so much better' is pretty much how i feel about the stuff i am doing, especiallt for the novels. But then, it really is just for me, which is funny, so basically i am just interested in getting out all these ideas and doing it as well as i can. So even when i look at it and go 'gah, no one would ever want to read this' i can just shrug, because it is a purely selfish endeavour to produce soemthign that surprises me, makes me go 'wow, i thought and wrote that...interesting...'
I was listening to the radio today and heard about Edinburough, which is apparently THE city for writers and books alike.
There are many famous people whose work was done there.
A Guy with B, forgot that one, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and J.K. Rowling were there! And uncounted publisher houses are there, too!The fist book of GB was printed there.
It seems you should move to Edinburough, beowuuf, or visit it sometime.
The "skyline" is magnificent.
Well, just for informational purposes, i thought you may be interested in reading this stuff.
There are many famous people whose work was done there.
A Guy with B, forgot that one, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and J.K. Rowling were there! And uncounted publisher houses are there, too!The fist book of GB was printed there.
It seems you should move to Edinburough, beowuuf, or visit it sometime.
The "skyline" is magnificent.
Well, just for informational purposes, i thought you may be interested in reading this stuff.
lol, i visit it all the time (where do you think i was over new years : ) ) and really like it there
it's very good for photography as you say with the skyline, etc (anyone seeing my other thread and knows edinburgh may start to spot certain elements) but didn't know it was also good for writers!
alas, i am destined to end up somewhere in england..gah
didn i say alas and gah..i meant...woohoo...
it's very good for photography as you say with the skyline, etc (anyone seeing my other thread and knows edinburgh may start to spot certain elements) but didn't know it was also good for writers!
alas, i am destined to end up somewhere in england..gah
didn i say alas and gah..i meant...woohoo...
Oops! Thanks, Gambit!
I mixed it up with boroughs, all the time!!
Beowuuf, you did also spell it correct, so thank you too for showing indirectly.
off topic alarm -------------------------
play chess, Gambit?? And do you change your nick sometimes? I could swear you added "37" just recently. Or am i nuts?(i mean, more than usual:))
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begin of useless crap----------------------
Edinburgh.
Edinburgh. Edinburgh. Ok. i think i got it
end of sense-------------------------
I mixed it up with boroughs, all the time!!
Beowuuf, you did also spell it correct, so thank you too for showing indirectly.
off topic alarm -------------------------
play chess, Gambit?? And do you change your nick sometimes? I could swear you added "37" just recently. Or am i nuts?(i mean, more than usual:))
End of off topic alarm---------------------
begin of useless crap----------------------
Edinburgh.
Edinburgh. Edinburgh. Ok. i think i got it
end of sense-------------------------