dead monsters counter

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:42 pm

I just thought... would it possible to add a "dead monster counter" (ex: 170 scorpions died, 32 thieves died, 816 skeleton died, 40 demons died, etc, etc..) on the end of the game, like it`s in Dungeon Hack? To make it easier to count, that counter would count ALL monster`s deaths, not just those killed directly by party (by a "monster death filter" probably).
Would it be possible to add several counters, each for one type of monster, activated by those monster`s death? (ex: when monster X dies, monster death filter activates counter X, when Y - activates Y counter etc.
if so, we could make a new "tournament": who kills more creatures?

It`s just my another crazy idea, if it`s impossible/useless, please don`t be irritated, Paul...

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:56 pm

No irritation whatsoever.

It does not seem too useful to me. You
can kill an infinite number of monsters in DM1,
for example, if you have the time.

I don't think it would be exceedingly difficult
to do. Remember that in ConfluxIII there are
four times as many kinds of monsters. Sorta.

One small problem is that the runtime engine
does not know the monter names. They are
just numbers. The names do not appear in
either the engine or the graphics file.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:13 pm

Remember that in ConfluxIII there are
four times as many kinds of monsters.

well, that`s a lot! I though there`s a limit... or is Zyx replacing their graphics, but the characteristics of all these creatures stays the same?

of course, the counters would be usefull only if there`s a specified number of monsters in the game (no monsters generators, or if they`re generating once only), so you could get know if you killed all of them. So, for example in my dungeon, you could kill infinite number of thieves (thieves generators), but only 6 of the dragons. By a tournament I was thinking rather killing strong, non-respawning monsters (my custom again: you don`t have to kill any of these dragons to finish a game), not weak mummies or screamers, etc.
ok... that tournament wasn`t very good idea.. but while playing Conflux, when I was revelling in Moria, I was just curioused, how many of Antmans I killed...

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:33 pm

You have a monster death filter - does it identify the monster type away to die? Surely you can then get a self-created DSA to keep a runnign total

The problem of coruse would be to output that number - you can always look at your own dungeon through CSBuild to see the number I guess...

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:22 pm

Each monster can have now up to 3 alternate graphics. Let's call theses its subtypes.

You can distinguish the type and subtype of a monster when it dies, int the death filter.

It would be best if displayed right after the hall of fame. You don't need to know the name of the creature if you display its image instead!

But then it's up to Paul to determine how to link the death counting with the hall of fame.
Maybe the simplest way is to code an integrated counter in CSBwin code, for each species and its 3 subtypes.
Then a new boolean parameter in the death filter, by default set to 1, tells the engine if each death must be counted or not.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:35 pm

I guess I don't see the need for this.

so you could get know if you killed all of them

Seems to be the only need explicitly stated. A much
simpler problem. You can easily open a door or provide
a key or scroll or print some text or something when the
Nth Dragon dies. You could easily provide a progress
indicator like "ONLY THREE DRAGONS TO GO".

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 pm

You can distinguish the type and subtype of a monster when it dies

And of course you can also distinguish them when they
attack, move, or are attacked so that you can change
their behaviour.

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:31 pm

it seems to be the same need as for the hall of fame. Some people like seeing stats that summarize their feats.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:46 pm

I guess only adamo has asked for it., and is this a feature you'd want to see in every dungoen, or was it just a mechanic you want for your own dungeon, that you got the idea of during conflux?

I still say for your own dungeon, clever use of a DSA so at the end of the game it can spew back out the notable monsters your killed

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:13 pm

Graduation ceremony. Hand out diplomas
for all great accomplishments. A dunce hat
for total failure.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:36 pm

LOL, a giggler comes over and steals your stuff for being stupid, then slaps you

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:58 pm

it's perfeclty doable with a DSA using the text zone, but:
-there are only 4 lines of text available
-I'd need to be able to say numbers from DSA, for example:
.N.A would fetch the parameter A from the first DSA.
But maybe Paul has another idea about the implementation.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:11 pm

Personally speaking I would have a sub-routine that would strip the numbers from the DSA parameter (with &/ etc) and use them as a target location (y axis line of texts that have one - nine, maybe another for ten, twnety, etc) with back up texts for thousand, hundred, tens and 'and'

Do the four text lines scroll? You coudl then say:

One
Hundred
and
Twenty
Two
Mummies

etc ?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:04 pm

so you could get know if you killed all of them

I was thinking simple. He wanted to know if they
were all killed. So I would give
him a diploma saying one of:
"Total Failure in Dragon Killing"
"Certificate of Participation in Dragon Killing"
"Bachelor (or novice or whatever) Degree in Dragon Killing"
"Master (or expert) Degree in Dragon Killing"
"Doctor (or master) in Dragon Killing"

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:37 pm

Ah, so because you would know the amount of critters left?

Here's the 'speaking' part of a DSA counting out a random number of kills (no type assigned, of course). Seems to work perfectly happily, although I have 'cheated' in that I am assuming a fixed maximum (9999) I am sure a little more set up and inginuity could make it flexible up to the maximum amount a DSA can hold (18 bit number, right?)
http://www.dmjump.net/dungeon.dat

As a bug report, I managed to get CSBwin to crash (red windows error death, no warning or traces) if I had a 'swap' command without enough variables on the stack to swap.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:07 am

I managed to get CSBwin to crash

You should get a Stack Underflow.

I tried it and I got a Stack Underflow.

So I would very much appreciate an example
that can cause a crash.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:45 am

Don't know why so interesting in this one, but created a mini dungeon showing a proper kill count. Ressurect, thump critters, and if you press one of the three mirrors dotted around you will get your current kill tally

http://www.dmjump.net/dungeon1.dat

About the crash - sorry, it can't be a stack underflow because I dupliated a number before the swap, so it should simply have swapped two different numbers.

I have a saved game which gives the crash. What I did was removed an 'LA' from line T1 (this is the line that is giving the tens count). Maybe it's late and I'm missing something later like an &say using a negative that is causing the crash... can't trace it, it crashes! I was using 9.8v135

http://www.dmjump.net/csbsave2.dat

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:00 am

I got your dungeon1.dat OK.
Cannot get your csbgame2.dat.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:08 am

There is a reason for that called bad spelling and not checking download

http://www.dmjump.net/csbgame2.dat

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:36 am

Thanks.

You referenced a non-existent level of
the dungeon.

Fixed. It does not crash. &SAY behaves just as
if no text exists at the specified location.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:27 am

Paul Stevens said

You
can kill an infinite number of monsters in DM1,
for example, if you have the time.

I think it could be usefull (death monster counter) in competitions for some small, 1-3 levels dungeons, wchich you can finish in few hours, under some conditions.

-Maximum Kills Competition:
Let`s say there`s a lot of weak, respawning monsters (mummies, skeletons etc.). Max competition is a "race" who`ll kill more creatures.
Max kills conditions:
1. limited water= no fountains (or limited acces to them). Means that there`s only a couple of water flasks in a dungeon. That would limit a player of killing monsters, because water will be drunk at some time (if there are 4 characters - four times faster). It`s up to the designer how many water flasks he`ll put into his dungeon for this competition.
2. OR limited food, wchich means - when there are a lot of respawning: screamers, worms, rats and dragons, that they cannot leave any food after their death (ex: screamers won`t leave screamer slices, worms - worm rounds, rats -schanks and dragons - dragon steaks), to keep hold a specified amount of food in a dungeon. It can be easily done by ADGE. OR - you can make a limited number of those monsters, that leaves food (not many of them I guess). It`s up to the designer how much food will he leave in a dungeon for max competition (if any

)
3. limited time
for example - you have an hour to finish the game, killing as much creatuers as you can in that time.

-Minimum Kills Competition:
No limitations needed here. You have to kill as less monsters as you can. (I would call it "humanitarian competition").

Say in the end of the game appears statistic - a rank of your crimes. The ranks couldn`t be easily compared, because if player X killed 128 skeletons and only 30 mummies and player Y killed 30 skeletons and 128 mummies, but also killed a dragon, we cannot say for sure, who`s better. I think that comparing "kill ranks" by the players could be funny itself. We could make a max/min competition thread of a game in the forum, where players could place their rank screenshots with their achieves, to proove that their really killed 50 mummies, 42 skeletons, 0 dragons, 340 thieves, 3 rats, 7 demons, 19 rives and 35 oitus etc in a limited time (or in a dungeon with food/water limit)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:59 am

Limited food/water does not kill you instantly , it just forces your dependance on stamina potions and limits your combat abilities

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:48 pm

you`re right Beo, but with limited food/water you`ve got also limited time to playing the game. You can play until you starve to death = it`s something similar to the time limit. The question is: how many monsters you`re able to kill in a limited time. With a screamer generator and a fountain - unlimited number. But without these - it`s depend on abilities, playing style, etc. That`s the point of Max Kill Competitions.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:15 pm

A player could easily horde food for very tough fights but otherwise play on a starvation level to build up the kill count for as long as they cared to - the joy of stamina potions. Still be tough and test a plyer's skill and tenacity though : )

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:38 pm

that`s why I think there should be very low food/water amount (in small dungeons, of course) in competitions like this - however it`s all up to the designer.
And... potions should be forbidden

(only joking!!!)

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:31 pm

I consider this subject closed. It has been demonstrated
that dead monsters can be counted and reported.

I would be happy to discuss a more general 'Formatted
Print' capabiility that might be useful in more general ways.

Post by **PaulH** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:03 pm

Ah, Adamo has said a lot of what I was going to say. But I was thinking about whether it possible to add a total mks (monster kill statistic) into the drop down menus in CSBwin alongside the moves/time/etc. This will allow some of the basic competitions to be easily played and verified.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:24 pm

menus in CSBwin alongside the moves/time/etc

Well now. I don't see any drop-down menu that
provides any such things.

The x1 window size provides some of these things
to the right of the viewport (but that is not really
part of the game and does not appear on other
versions like Linux or Pocket PC).

I suppose we could add a menu selection to
display 'Statistics'. But it requires the format of
the game save files to change (perhaps slightly)
to keep track of any additional items.

Well, ummmmmmm, I suppose.............
And, again, the best we could do with the monsters is
to give them numbers and perhaps their DM names.

Post by **PaulH** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:28 pm

I think this would be gratefully received by many as a lot of people seem to want to try out new competitions in CSBWin. This of course creates more movies and will allow us to view each others tactics etc.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:44 pm

OK. I have a plan in mind that will be
very gentle to the runtime engine and
not break anything. I worry about adding
things that might cause problems for
ConfluxIII. All the playtesting that has
gone into that game needs to be protected.

Moreover, I will provide a 'Statistics' filter
capability so that you can override the
formatting of each line of the 'Statistics'
window. That will allow renaming monsters
and other modifications like keeping totals
and displaying scores and such.