[Done for V0.38] Maximum Light Level

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:55 am

Well, I don't whether this is really a bug, but the first thing that I nocticed after a long absence from RTC was, that the light level was near to blinding white after I had cast 1 MonFul + 1 OhIrRa and picked up and activated the torch in the Hall of Champions. Isn't there a maximum level of light anymore?

Post by **Gambit37** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:00 pm

I believe you can't go over 100% light if you're using FulIr or torches in combination. OhIrRa does go higher though which makes a lot of sense to me given the logic behind DM's magic system.

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:20 pm

Yes, but some time ago I used to cast a couple of MonOhIrRa too and it didn't turn THAT white.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:27 pm

The light level is constant between 100% and 200% and so you can have two full torches or a torch and about 5 lo light spells or a torch and a couple of oh ir ra spells without any noticable change in light. Any more than that and the light level will start getting visibly brighter.

I decided against a maximum level because then if you cast loads of light spells on a level with a maximum when you moved to one without it would be a bit of a shock. The current way gives you a warning that casting light spells will make it lighter.

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:46 pm

Ok, that sounds reasonable, yet it is different from original DM and thus should be only handled that way in RTC-DM.

Post by **Lunever** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:19 am

After finally having some time to start a new game of RTC I just played the first level of O-DM, and while not having a light level limit like in FTL-DM might be ok, adding up light sources should not be linear. I gave all champions a fresh, burning torch and the screen was almost white. 4 torches in a dungeon should not be displayed as if the sun had personally descended into Mount Anaias. I think only the brightest source of light should be taken fully into account, other sources should be not calculated in fully.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:26 am

Agreed there.

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Lunever wrote:I think only the brightest source of light should be taken fully into account, other sources should be not calculated in fully.

Good idea.

I'll have a look into how easy that will be to do.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:58 pm

Well, I'm not sure whether I relly should even mention it because I do not want it to be changed: But anyone who does want to stick to original DM light including a maximum light cap can easily do so - just switch on STEPLIGHTING=YES in the config file, and voilá, there you have your light cap.

Even if dungeon designers, e.e. Sophia, do create light-based puzzles, please leave the steplighting option as it is now, so users can deside whether they want original DM light behaviour or not. A dungeon designer who does need the virtually unlimited light level for some devious puzzle can still give his players the information in the a README that they are supposed to have STEPLIGHTING=NO.

Beyond that, this issue makes me make a general suggestion: Often it is questionable whether to allow some option in the config file because players MIGHT abuse it. Why not generally allow a dungeon designer in the dungeon file to override any config switch? You could easily say then, "this dungeon only works properly without steplighting, thus the steplighting setting of the config filewill be overriden into YES. This would also make the question obsolete, whether a dungeon's puzzles are compatible to the difficulty auto-adaption algorithm - if the dungeon's designer has the feeling, they they are not going well with each other, he might manually set a certain level (although I would still prefer to allow in addition to that a minimum and maximum difficulty level adaption to be set in the config file, to be overridden by the dungeon designer. That way the designer could say things like "This is an epic dungeon for superheroes, no one will be allowed to play it below expert difficulty" or "this puzzle won't work with to fast monsters, so I limit the difficulty to be adept and no more".
I'm certain that someday someone will invent a puzzle that does require monsters' footstep sounds to be used, so that dungeon designer can force footsteps to be on as long as sound is on etc..
If that suggestion should be implemented, no matter whether fully or partially, no matter the details, any override executed should be displayed at the game's beginning, like the auto-adaption is already.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:20 pm

Well in that case LEAVE IT AS IS since everyone is complainign abotu the lighting being non-dm, go to step light...never would ahve thought ; )

I agree about overridign some of the config options, since as you say it is really to make it more DM like - custom dungeons aren't DM, therefore certain rules shouldn't apply : )

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:40 pm

He he - that is a bug!

What I think is the best option then is to move the steplighting option out of the config file and into the dungeon.txt file. That way the original DM dungeon can remain the same and new dungeons can have the smooth lighting / brightness if they want.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:03 pm

No, please do it the twin way: Leave it in the config file as a general setting and allow the dungeon designer to override it: That I way I can still switch it on and off for the DM-dungeon without having to tamper with editing the dungeon (and you probably won't accept en edited dungeon to be used for the global hall of fame).

Yet, if that is to complicated, well, then integrate it into the dungeon, it'd be still better than it is now. If you should follow my suggestions of allowing an option like DIFMIN=[0-16] and DIFMAX=[0-16] (let's say DIFMAX has a higher priority in case of conflicting numbers), they may well be included in the dungeon options, since for such modifications it might be ok to disallow qualification for the global hall of fame. But again: Generally it would be a better approach to use a twin solution with a general setting in the config file and a higher priority setting in the dungeon, that way a dungeon designer can decide for himself how much freedom he leaves to the players or how many restrictions he imposes upon them. Same goes of course for footstep sounds, though they should still be mute if the player disables sound alltogether (he will still know whether this can be a problem or not if the dungeon designer includes an information that footsteps are required).

I'd like to add one remark that is important to me: I often curse software and its designers into the 9th echelon of hell because some supersmart software automatically does things it thinks to be wished for by the user, albeit I as a user do not want them. Often switches that allow to disable such automatisms are hidden deep in such programs if they exist at all, sometimes the user has even to dig into the registry to have his way. Microsoft Office is probably a good example for this.
I very much hope that RTC will be smarter than that and will allow its users or at least its dungeon designers to tweak it according to their preferences (after all that's why preferences are called preferences).

Post by **Zyx** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:04 pm

Speaking of which, what about a clip to help you orienting yourself in the dungeon?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:10 pm

It would die too quickly - all the other monsters would smack it into oblivion before the party had a chance to reach it.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:13 pm

Seems I don't understand what Zyx and GG are talking about. A "clip", what do you mean by that?

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:29 pm

Lunever wrote:No, please do it the twin way: Leave it in the config file as a general setting and allow the dungeon designer to override it: That I way I can still switch it on and off for the DM-dungeon without having to tamper with editing the dungeon (and you probably won't accept en edited dungeon to be used for the global hall of fame).

There are two distinguishable issues here:

1) The step-lighting. This is an entirely cosmetic effect achieved by rounding the lightlevel off to the nearest Nth step instead of it being a smooth transition and therefore entirely appropriate to be a configurable parameter left to the choice of the player. Specifically it will make no difference to how the dungeon is played, just how it looks. In this respect it's like the flight arc and low resolution modes.

2) The maximum light level. This *does* affect how the dungeon is played and therefore should be beyond the control of the player (i.e. part of the dungeon design).

Currently, due to a bug, the 2nd can be circumvented by the 1st (which is wrong - hence a bug). I therefore intend to leave 1 as it is (other than fixing the bug) and add 2 as a dungeon option (which will be limited in the Original DM dungeon and not in the RTC DM one).

I think all of that is perfectly sensible - I'm sure you'll let me know of your objections though

Lunever wrote:tamper with editing the dungeon (and you probably won't accept en edited dungeon to be used for the global hall of fame).

Yep - the *.RTC files that are included are marked so I can tell. Specifically, if you compile the example txt files you won't get an identical *.RTC file (although the dungeon itself will be the same) so I'll be able to spot any editing.

Interestingly, no-one has tried it on so far...I'm impressed with everyones honesty

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:32 pm

Ok, so I can have steplighting on in O-DM and off in RTC-DM without re-editing the dungeon and still be qualified for the gHoC, right?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:33 pm

The paperclip from office!

And forget monsters, the party would surely roast it : )

George Gilbert · Post by **George Gilbert** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:23 am

OK, I've made two fixes now for V0.38.

Firstly, I've fixed the bug with the step-lighting; this now behaves as expected (i.e. the light level changes in steps rather than smoothly).

Secondly, I've made the calculation of the light level logarithmic (well, an approximation to it for speed reasons) which means that it now takes a huge amount of light to max it out (about 40 Mon Ful spells rather than 4 before!)

I havn't implemented a maximum value yet though as that presents a few problems (from a players point of view; changing the engine is easy!) that I need to think through. Hopefully, with the logarithmic change it won't be necessary.

Post by **Lunever** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:55 pm

Well, and will steplighting remain a config feature, or did you move it (or preferably double it) to the dungeon.txt. In the latter case, does O-DM have steplighting YES and RTC-DM NO?