DM alternate controlling system

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Adamo
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DM alternate controlling system

Post by Adamo »

I was thinking about DM on obvious mobile phones. Would it be possible to do? Pa9an asked for this also:
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25461

IMHO some of the modern mobile phones could easily handle CSBwin, and some super-powerfull maybe even RTC (well if not now, maybe in the future - the mobile phones tech is now developing rapidly).
Anyway, there`s always a problem with the control: 99 % of the phones has only NUM - keyboard control system. It absolutely wouldn`t be possible to use a mouse/touchpad controlling system in that case. When (if) CSBwin or RTC was ever released on some kinds of mobile phones in the future, it needs an alternate control system to play it. While you cannot use mouse-pointer by 12 keys only, the only option left is the (123456789*0#) keys control (a code is on the bottom of the post).

So the goal is to allow playing the game ONLY by these twelve keys. Tremendous task but, IMHO, very doable. I think that DM PC version had the "keyboard only" option, but I guess it required much more keys that 12 (I hadn`t tried it yet). So I was thinking about an alternative DM control system in the case of the mobile phones. This is my proposition if CSBwin/RTC was ever released on some phones (who knows, miracles happens sometimes). This system would be as much intuitive as it is possible IMHO.

You`ve got 2 control modes in DM:
- "Exploration" mode (when you`re walking in the dungeon)
- "Inventory" mode

Key "0" should be used for changing them. So if you`re walking around the dungeon, you have to press "0" to enter the “inventory” mode. When pressing it once again, you`re back to “exploring” mode.

I. Exploring mode

The “4”, “5”, “6”, “7”, “8” and “9” keys could be used for making moves, as it is normally used in RTC (but computer keyboard has reversed of numbers; in the computer keyboard it has [7894561230.], while in mobile phones it is [123456789*0#]):
“4” - turn left
“5” - step straight
“6” - turn right
“7” - step left
“8” - step back
“9” - step right

It`s obvious. But there`s a lot of other functions left: how to tap a walls, throw objects and put them on the grond, how to fight and cast spell during the combat?

We`ve got 5 keys left (except “0” key, which is used for changing the game modes, as described above): “1”, “2”, “3”, “*” and “#”.

Key “2” would be best for tapping the walls (when the party is standing in front of the wall) and opening/closing the door (when the party is standing in front of a door with the switch).
So, when the party is standing in fron of the wall and the “2” key is pressed, the wall is tapped; if the wall is obvious, there will be tap sound, if fake, there won`t be any sound. It would work when the hand is empty of course.

When the party is in front of the door with the switch and the key “2” is pressed, the door switch is used (door are opened/closed).

If the party is standing in front of an empty space, key “2” wouldn`t work of course (emptiness cannot be tapped or opened/closed).

******************************

The “*” and “#” keys are for making the an action by the party. There are 6 possible action types in DM:

I. party is throwing object from its left side,

II. party is throwing object from its right side,

III. party is puting an object on the “left-close” position (the same tile of the party) on the ground when the hand is full (or taking the particular object from the floor, when the hand is empty),

IV. party is puting an object on the “left-far” position (the next tile of the party) on the ground when the hand is full (or taking the particular object from the floor, when the hand is empty),

V. party is puting an object from the “right-close” position (the same tile of the party) on the ground when the hand is full (or taking the particular object from the floor, when the hand is empty),

VI. party is puting an object from the “right-far” position (the next tile of the party) on the ground when the hand is full (or taking the particular object from the floor, when the hand is empty).

For these actions the “*”, as well as “#” keys, should be used:

I. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell and you press “#” or “*” along with the “1” key, the object is thrown away from the left side of the screen (if the hand is full),

II. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell and you press “#” or “*” along with the “3” key, the object is thrown away from the right side of the screen (if the hand is full),

III. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell and you press “#” or “*” along with the “4” key, the object is put (when the hand is full) on the left-far position from the party (the next tile) or taken from the same position (when the hand is full),

IV. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell and you press “#” or “*” along with the “6” key, the object is put (when the hand is full) on the right-far position from the party (the next tile) or taken from the same position (when the hand is full),

V. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell (or a wall/door/staircase) and you press “#” or “*” along with the “7” key, the object is put (when the hand is full) on the left-close position from the party (the same tile) or taken from the same position (when the hand is full),

VI. when the party is standing in front of an empty cell (or a wall/door/staircase) and you press “#” or “*” along with the “9” key, the object is put (when the hand is full) on the right-close position from the party (the same tile) or taken from the same position (when the hand is full).

(*)- When the party is standing in from of a closed door the 1st, 2nd actions could be done only when the door is object-passable.

Of course, when the party is standing in front of a wall, only two last actions could be done.

********************

Ok. As for the actions, when the party is standing in front of a wall, there are two actions left:

I. taking/putting objects from/on the alcoves (depends if the hand is empty/full) OR pushing/using other wall actuators (depends of the object in the hand). This action is for wall actuators placed on the upper position on the wall, like alcoves, manacles, demon faces, portrait frames etc.,

II. pushing/using wall actuators placed on the lower position on the wall (like grates, slimes, lower placed switches etc).

As for the first action, you press “*” or “# key along with the “5” key and for the second action you press “*” or “#” key along with the “8” key.

Of course, if the party is in front of an empty space or a door, these two actions are useless.

*******************

Ok. So there left fighting and casting spells actions in the “exploring” mode.

For using a weapon/hand (fighting or using an object) you have to press key “1” to enter the “fight sub-mode”. You can always leave this mode by pressing key “1” again.

The fighting sub-mode.

When it`s on, you have to choose the champion which you want to make a fight-action. For choosing a champion you have to press “2”, “5”, “8” or “0” keys:

- “2” for fist champion
- “5” for second champion
- “8” for third champion
- “0” for fourth champion (*)

Then you have to choose an action:
- “2” for first action
- “5” for second action
- “8” for third action
- “0” for cancel the actions (=you`re back to pick the champion again).

Suppose the second champion is equipped with the axe, which you want him to chop the monster (or destroy a door): you press key “1” (to enter the fight sub-mode), then you press key “5” (to choose second champion = second hand on the screen), then you press key “5” (to choose a “chop” action). Then, if you want to leave the fight sub-mode, you press “1” once again.

******************

Casting spells sub-mode.

For casting spells you have to press key “3” to enter the “spell casting sub-mode”. You can leave this sub-mode by pressing the same key once again.

Then you choose the champion you want to cast a spell:
- “2” for first champion
- “5” for second champion
- “8” for third champion
- “0” for forth champion (*)

Then you choose spell element by pressing keys from “4” to “9”:
- “4” for first element
- “5” for second element
- “6” for third element
- “7” for forth element
- “8” for fifth element
- “9” for sixth element

If you want to cast a spell, press “*” or “#” key. If you want to cancel the latest element, you press “0” key.
The spell categories comes after each other of course.

Ok, suppose you want to cast a spell by 4th champion, wchich contains of:
- spell strenght (0th category),
- 3rd element (1st category),
- 3rd element (2nd category),
- 5th element (3rd category).

First you press “3” key to enter the “spell casting sub-mode”. Then you press “0” key to choose 4th champion. Then you press “4”, “5”, “6”, “7”, “8” or “9” key to choose a strenght of that spell (0th category). Then you press “6” key to choose 3rd elementh of the 1st category. then you press “6” key to choose 3rd element of 2nd category. Then you press “8” key to choose 5th element of 3rd category. Then you press “*” or “#” key to cast the spell.
Or you press “0” key if you want to cancel last element. Or you press “3” key to leave the “spell casting sub-mode”.

Ok, you want the same champion to cast a strong “zo” spell:
- you press “3” key to enter the spell sub-mode
- you press “0” key to choose 4th champion
- you press “9” to choose the strongest rune
- you press “9” key to choose 6th element of 1st category (“zo” rune)
- you press “*” or “#” key to cast that spell
- you press “3” key to leave spell sub-mode.

*****************

When you want to change the capitain of the party, you press “*” along with the “#” key, wchich causes changing the leadership to the next champion in the party.

*****************

Ok, so in exploring mode we have:

“1” - for entering/leaving fight sub-mode
“2” - for tapping walls and opening/closing doors that contains the door switch
“3” - for entering/leaving spell sub-mode
“4” - for turning left
“5” - for stepping straight
“6” - for turning right
“7” - for stepping left
“8” - for stepping back
“9” - for stepping right
“*” - for making an actions with other num-keys (identical with “#”)
“0” - for entering an inventory mode
“#” - for making an actions with other num-keys (identical with “*”).

*********************

Ok, that`s it about the first, “exploring” mode. How to change the placings of the champions in a tile? I don`t know yet.
I`ll write about the second, “inventory” mode, later. But I`ve got an idea how to use this mode quickly and handfull with NUM keyboard only.

The phone keyboard (computer NUM keyboard has reversed order):

Code: Select all

   1   2   3

   4   5   6

   7   8   9

   *   0   #

Last edited by Adamo on Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Paul Stevens »

I played the entire DM game on the SNES.
Only about 10 buttons available.
Not too bad.
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Post by Gambit37 »

Whoa! :shock: :shock:. You clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this.

As Paul says, check out SNES DM or Nexus -- all handled perfectly well with a four way directional and the other buttons. Would be tricky to make it work exactly the same way on a phone, but I'm sure it could be a lot simpler than your proposal which seems to make it as complicated as possible :wink:
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Post by Adamo »

Gambit wrote:
Whoa! . You clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this.
about 6 hours + rewriting and correcting bugs :)
I'm sure it could be a lot simpler than your proposal which seems to make it as complicated as possible
:?: :?: :?: THAT seems complicated for you? It`s the most clearly and intuitive way you can play on the phone keyboard (*) ! Maybe because of my bad english & detailed description it seems complicated, but in fact it is much clearer and easier way as it can be !! Read my post carefully, take the phone and you`ll see how incredibly easy it can be: party-moving in a normal way, a button for tapping walls, two buttons for fight and spell sub-modes and that`s all !
Of course, to allow throwing and puting/taking objects on the ground without mouse would be hell, so with 12 keys you have to press 2 keys, as there are two places for throwing objects (left and right) and four places for putting object on the ground (left-close, left-far, right-close and right-far): for example to throw the knife you have to press "#" (or "*" if it`s more handy for you - I guess it would be!) + "1". There was no other way to do this. But, when you handle the phone by two hands, it`s incredibily easy ! I would even risk and say, that playing DM on the phone by this method would require MUCH LESS clicks than playing with the mouse & keyboard on the standard way.

(*) I mean the "exploring" mode, but I`ve got an idea, how to make "inventory mode" qiute easy to control.

I`ve got the Motorola phone (rather standard one) and I`ve played a lot of games on it: startegy games, arcasy games etc. In a 90 % of phone games playing by using the phone buttons is a hell ! My idea was to make a control system, which would make an intuitive and easy for the player, especially, who played this game before in a standard way, in contrary to other phone games, which have a very bad control style - well, 90% of them - (especially when you`ve got many possible actions during the play).
And remember, that DM is not a simple shooter.

I don`t see anything difficult or complicated in that I descripted above; maybe it`s because of my dull style of descripction. For example casting spells: originally you`ve got to make a lot of mouse clicks to cast a spell, that contains with four elements; we don`t see it because we`ve played DM houndred of hours.
I would say that IMHO, in contrary to the other phone games, you could easily lern that control system.

Paul Stevens wrote:
I played the entire DM game on the SNES.
Only about 10 buttons available.
Not too bad.
interesting! is there some SNES control description somewhere? (I don`t have possibility to try the SNES version on my PC). Is there a pointer in the SNES version avaliable, like it is in a normal PC, ST or Amiga mode?

****************

EDIT: for example I wrote:
- “2” for fist champion
- “5” for second champion
- “8” for third champion
- “0” for fourth champion (*)

Then you have to choose an action:
- “2” for first action
- “5” for second action
- “8” for third action
- “0” for cancel the actions (=you`re back to pick the champion again).
check this out, all these keys are in a row! IMHO it would be easy to control that way.

Making an action is also easy IMHO: throwing an object, putting an object on a wall farer and nearer (all from the left side of the screen) is situated in the left side of the keyboard: for throwing an action key ("*" or "#") + "1" key (because it`s on the top of the keyboard), placing an object farer form the party is "#" + "4" (becase it`s in the middle of the keyboard) and placing object closer to the party is "#" + "7" (because it`s below the "4". And all these buttons ("1", "4" and "7" in a row!). Same about the right side of the screen (= right side of the keyboard).
Last edited by Adamo on Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Gambit37 »

On the SNES, you actually use the 4 way cursor to move the hand around the dungeon view when in 'interact' mode -- it's a bit slow and cumbersome but you do soon get used to it.
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Post by Adamo »

Gambit wrote:
On the SNES, you actually use the 4 way cursor to move the hand around the dungeon view when in 'interact' mode
yeah, I wanted to avoid that - I guess that wouldn`t be very handy during the battles. It`s a pity, but we have to deal with the mobile phones keabord limitations: with phone keyboard there can be no mouse pointer, and "emulating" it would surely slow the play and make it more complicated.
I`ve got also ideas for an inventory mode, where, with some tricky solutions, you could for example easily and fast drink all the potions during the combat, etc.

My idea was to make as qiuck as possible control system not to make to many "clicks" during the play (= you could move quickly, cast spells and fight qiuckly in a "exploring" mode). It would be more complicated in an "inventory" mode, but also possible IMHO.

I realize that my description might be hard to understand when reading for the first time, but in fact it would be extremally easy & quick in a use, IMHO.

I wrote:
is there some SNES control description somewhere?
all right, it`s descripted in the encyclopedia (page 22 of the SNES DM manual):
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/816
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Post by Paul Stevens »

Tell you what........you get CSBwin installed
and running on your cell-phone. Then I will
provide a way (using the config.txt file) for
you to map the buttons to whatever you need.

I'm sure George will do the same for RTC.

Case closed. :wink:
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Post by Tom Hatfield »

Gambit, you can hold down one of the buttons to move while in interact mode. You don't have to use the cursors. I don't remember which button, but it shouldn't take long to figure out considering there are only ten, and I can tell you it isn't D-Pad, Start, Select, L, or R. ;)
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Post by Gambit37 »

Yes, I know -- I'm talking about moving the hand cursor to pick stuff up.
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