Computer problem :P

[Ameena]

Just wondering whether ayone might be able to help with a little problem...
My dad and I recently (as in, the other day) got a copy each of Titan Quest Gold (the game Titan Quest plus its expansion, Immortal Throne). My dad's copy installed on his computer fine, easy, no problems. With mine, my computer wouldn't detect the disk (ie disk was in drive but comp claimed it wasn't). So I borrowed my dad's TQ disk and installed it from that, because my comp decided it would pick up that disk. Then it said I had to restart the comp to complete the installation so I did, but then it decided (during drive detection as part of boot-up sequence) it wasn't gonna pick up the disk again, so I swapped back to my copy and hey presto, it detected it. Wtf...
Then I came to install the expansion, and it detected the disk and installed okay. Then, yes, had to reboot comp again, and again it decided it was gonna stop detecting this disk. So I swapped with my dad again and it worked. Until the next time I booted up my comp, the following morning. Come that evening (this was yesterday), I swapped disks with my dad again because I wanted to play the game and it wasn't picking up the disk. Again. After half an hour it suddenly decided there was a disk in the drive, me having rebooted the comp once in between multiple openings and closings of the drive. I didn't actually get round to playing the game, though, because at that point my sister and her friend got home and he (the friend) started asking me about the Spore thingy so I ended up showing him that, then it was after 11pm and I went to bed.
Anyway, today, now, I've been trying for umm...I dunno, half hour or so maybe, to try and get this thing to work. It still won't read the disk. I'm gonna try rebooting in a minute. Just in case. But this isn't the only time it's done this - it wouldn't detect an Icewind Dale disk my dad got a while back, either. That was a DVD-ROM disk. So is TQ. Disks such as Diablo II (and its expansion) and Morrowind, which are CD-ROMs, have never given me a problem. But I just had a look at the box for Oblivion and that's a DVD-ROM too...and has also never refused to load.
I have no idea what's going on with my comp here. It seems to be very intermittantly detecting the disk. You'd think it'd either work always or never. Weird. And incredibly frustrating, 'cause I wanna play this bloody game .
Anyway, any ideas?

[Gambit37]

Have you cleaned the disk?

[zoom]

maybe get a new cdrom drive?

Have you checked the cables
that are attached in the case of the computer to and from the cddrive?? parallel cable etc, probably there occured some form of loosening

(or try to get the one of your father and
build it -just for testing purposes- into your computer and see
whether it works all right or not, which it really should, so don't do it if you don't know what you're doing !.)

[Ameena]

Gambit - yes the disk is clean...they all are. They're brand new.

I think my comp's just being weird. Swapped disks with my dad again (shortly after starting this thread) and it worked traight away, lol. Probably tomorrow when I boot up the comp it'll have decided, again, that the disk isn't in there any more .

[Gambit37]

Not all discs are made equal. You may have a bad copy. I'd take it back and get it exchanged.

Also, some drives are more particular than others. What make is your DVD drive?

[Ameena]

Erm, how do I tell? My computer's a Packard Bell, if that's got anything to do with it...
And could four different disks really be "bad copies"? Can't really take them back anyway, since they were ordered off Amazon. And it isn't the first time my comp's done it - it did it with a copy of Icewind Dale too (part of a box set thingy containing IWD, its expansion, and IWD II). I think it must be something to do with them being DVD-ROMs rather than CD-ROMS...but then, how come Oblivion (on a DVD-ROM) has never given trouble...hrmmm...

[Gambit37]

Erm, how do I tell? My computer's a Packard Bell

That's your problem right there. You need to buy a proper computer!



Seriously, I thought they'd gone out business years ago. One of the worst computer manufacturers of all time.

[Gambit37]

Sorry, that last post didn't really help!

It certainly sounds like your drive is very picky. I'd get it looked at. Is it a desktop machine or laptop?

BTW to find out your drive details, right click My Computer, select Properties, then Hardware tab, then the button "Device manager". A list will show up and if you expand the option for DVD/CD drives, it'll show the manufacturer/details of the drive. (This is all in XP -- I don't use Vista.)

[Crash.]

One thing that I've read is that Titan Quest uses a copy protection system called Securom, which seems to cause problems for some people. I've had problems with several copy protection schemes that insisted I didn't have the CD in the drive when I did; this is due to a failure of the copy protection check, when the protection system is so precarious it can't always accurately recognize a legitimate copy.

Another possibility, depending on the type of rom drive you are using (IDE, USB, Firewire, SATA), and whether it is a removable device. Windows is generally bad at keeping some removable devices connected, so I personally do not use USB or Firewire storage devices as permanently attached devices.

If you have a removable device connected (USB, Firewire) but there is no drive letter in Windows, this is the issue. Solutions range from power cycling the drive, changing the port it is plugged into, re-booting everything, or even disabling then re-enabling the port in System Properties.

This could also be an operating system problem with detection of media (Auto-insert notification, Autoplay, etc...) where the operating system checks the drives every few seconds to see if anything has changed. This system is not always reliable.

If you put the disk in the drive and nothing happens automatically, this means the autoplay function didn't notice your disk, but you should still be able to open it manually.

Does the drive show up in "My Computer"? If so, when the disk is in the drive, and you open that drive, what does it show?

If it opens the window that should show the contents, but reads empty (like when a blank CDr is inserted), the rom drive is probably faulty.

If it tells you there is no disk in the drive (when there is), that may also mean the rom drive is faulty.

Perhaps if you can clarify a little, I can help pinpoint the problem. I suspect that it is a combination of a picky rom drive and copy protection.

[Ameena]

The computer must sort of know I've put a disk in, becuase it tries to read it - it wort of makes a noise like it's starting to load, but then doesn't get anywhere. It just keeps making the noise again every few seconds, like it's going "Okay, the drive's just been closed, now let's see if there's a disk...oh, okay, the drive's just been closed, let me see if...".
It seems to take multiple tries of opening and closing the drive before it'll pick up the disk...maybe it's that buggy copy-protect thing you mentioned, Crash. The game is most certainly a legitimate copy, not one that's been sneakily downloaded or anything like that. T'was bought new, still wrapped in the cellophane, etc etc. Both copies were - that is, mine and my dad's. Remember I've tried using CDs from both copies and had the same problem...but it has always decided to work eventually. I have the game up now, as it happens, though minimised while I just check my forums and stuff before I get back to running arond pwning stuff .
Oh, and Gambit, I think I found what my drive is. Well I found a big long name thing in the Device Manager thingy under "CD/DVD-ROM Drives". It says ""ATAPI DVD A DH16A1P ATA Device". Presumably that's the drive type...
Surely if the problem was with the drive itself, it'd be buggy with other disks. But the other games I've mentioned have all been fine. It's just TQ (and the newer version of IWD) it doesn't seem to like.

[zoom]

Hopefully these were not first signs that the drive is about to "bite the dust".

[Gambit37]

I didn't think about copy protection, that's a good call by Crash. That could certainly be the problem.

Sorry I can't be more help, I'm rather out of touch on hardware issues.

[Ameena]

I wouldn't think the drive is gonna die, Zoom...I only got this comp back in November and as I've mentioned, other disks run fine.
If it's the copy-protect thing that's the problem, would htere be any way around it or will I just have to keep opening and closing the drive until the comp reads it as I have been doing so far?

[Crash.]

The computer must sort of know I've put a disk in, becuase it tries to read it - it wort of makes a noise like it's starting to load, but then doesn't get anywhere. It just keeps making the noise again every few seconds, like it's going "Okay, the drive's just been closed, now let's see if there's a disk...oh, okay, the drive's just been closed, let me see if...".

Okay, that's the Autoplay/auto-insert notification. Sounds like the drive is simply having trouble reading the disk due to something specific to the manufacturing of that game (copy protection or disk formula).

It seems to take multiple tries of opening and closing the drive before it'll pick up the disk...maybe it's that buggy copy-protect thing you mentioned, Crash.

Most of the time, if it is just a copy protection issue, the game disk will be readable and install, but then fail to run - often complaining that you need to put the original disk in the drive. There are some examples of copy protection that will make the disk hard to read in general, but this is probably less common than things related to the color/formula of the CD. Each brand of rom drive has different tolerance in reading various types of disk media.

The game is most certainly a legitimate copy, not one that's been sneakily downloaded or anything like that. T'was bought new, still wrapped in the cellophane, etc etc. Both copies were - that is, mine and my dad's. Remember I've tried using CDs from both copies and had the same problem...but it has always decided to work eventually. I have the game up now, as it happens, though minimised while I just check my forums and stuff before I get back to running arond pwning stuff .

If it was a disk you had burned yourself, it would be more likely to be readable on your drive. On occasion, I've had game disks that wouldn't read on a specific computer, so I made a backup and the backup was readable.

Oh, and Gambit, I think I found what my drive is. Well I found a big long name thing in the Device Manager thingy under "CD/DVD-ROM Drives". It says ""ATAPI DVD A DH16A1P ATA Device". Presumably that's the drive type...
Surely if the problem was with the drive itself, it'd be buggy with other disks. But the other games I've mentioned have all been fine. It's just TQ (and the newer version of IWD) it doesn't seem to like.

I wouldn't characterize the drive as buggy specifically, it just may not be as tolerant of different media. I've had situations where one computer would refuse to read a perfectly good disk but otherwise work fine. Still, replacing the drive with a different brand often resolves the problem.

[Crash.]

First, I do hope that you have contacted the publisher of this game and informed them that it is not working, in case this is a common problem that they may have a solution to. Also check any support forums on the publisher's site for others having this problem.

I'll preface this discussion with the following. I own hundreds, if not thousands of legitimate computer games going back to the early 80s.

I don't recommend piracy, but I do suggest that it should be okay for those who legitimately purchase a game to be able to play it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that copy protection schemes that interfere with use by the honest consumer are just plain wrong. As such, I'll discuss some ideas for getting this game working and hope this doesn't annoy people.

I wouldn't think the drive is gonna die, Zoom...I only got this comp back in November and as I've mentioned, other disks run fine.
If it's the copy-protect thing that's the problem, would htere be any way around it or will I just have to keep opening and closing the drive until the comp reads it as I have been doing so far?

While not necessarily legal or allowed by the game publisher, there are some solutions to copy protection that interferes with gameplay.

Securom is one of the schemes that installs a background process "User Access Service" (UAService). I know for a fact that some copy protection systems that use a background process or service, can and will interfere with reading of other disks. Perhaps you can check your background processes and services to see if there is anything running that may be temporarily disabled when you want to use this game. I believe the service for Safedisc protection is called secdrv.

I have sometimes use a task utility like Enditall to kill all unnecessary background tasks, which can help to resolve some conflicts.

In some cases, updates to the copy protection system can resolve problems like this; but unfortunately I don't see any updates available for Securom that may have helped here.

Sometimes, a hacker or game publisher will release an update that removes the copy protection check, known as a nocd patch. When done officially, it is often because so many people have had problems with a game, or when the copy protection scheme from Windows98 doesn't work with WindowsXP, etc... Other times, they just release the patch after the game has been out for a while because they are nice. On at least one occasion, a game publisher may have released a nocd patch that was created by a hacker:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 029176/p/1
Other times, I've seen game publishers unofficially mention that there is a nocd patch available that may resolve user problems. In any case, there have been a few games where the only way I have ever learned it was possible to get the game working, was to circumvent the copy protection.

One big caveat: many of the sites that host nocd patches also infect browsers with spyware, viruses, and trojans. Often, along with the nocd patch or hacked executable, an additional infected program is included at no extra charge. Don't even consider looking for such a thing without a current and updated anti-virus, and do not use Internet Explorer. Of course, it is important to be aware that, nocd patches or hacked executable are not legal in the US (thanks to the DCMA which makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection). I don't know the legalities in other areas.

Another option, assuming you have the required software (Alcohol 120%, Clonecd, Game Jackal, for example), is to make a CD image on the hard drive, and use a program such as Alcohol 120%, Daemon Tools to mount the cd image and play the game.

Finally, also contingent on necessary software, is to try to make a backup of the CD on another computer, then see if your computer is more successful at reading the backup.

Of course, none of these methods are likely to be permitted by the game publisher, and may not be legal in your area, and therefore may not be recommended.

[Ameena]

Hrmm, I might look on the TQ official site then, and see if anyone's posted anything up there. I don't really want to do anything non-legitimate since this I is a perfectly legitimate copy of the game and I don't want to risk messing it up.

[Crash.]

Understood.

I just wanted to mention all the options that I was aware of. I do hope you get it working!

[zoom]

The CD image tools are a solution I would consider, since
it would drive me mad to wait for the drive to accept the disc.

[Joramun]

I read that there are a couple of games that install copy-protection software that can cause those kind of problems.

Specifically, the first Track-Mania Nation installed a russian malware (Starforce CD or something like that) that could cause disk-reading disruption and even damage (!).

I'm afraid you have something like that installed, and to get rid of it, you'll have to find it and blast it.

[Crash.]

Starforce is Russian, but not specifically malware. It is a commercial copy protection system that installs a device driver for its own purposes. Some people have classified it as malware since:

1. it allegedly causes problems such as disk drive performance degradation, weakening of operating system security and stability
2. it seems to stay on the system even when the game is uninstalled

Since some of this controversy started, several game publishers have dropped Starforce from their new games.

If you are concerned that this may be causing the problem, here is a link to a Starforce removal tool. Please note that removing Starforce will cause any Starforce protected game on your system to stop working, potentially requiring re-installation of said games.

http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

[Ameena]

I got halfway through searching through the tech-help section of the forums off the TQ official site before I had to go to work this morning - I'm gonna carry on looking in a bit, to see if anyone else has had this problem and if it's possible to fix it (without risking messing up my comp or any games on it).

[beowuuf]

Can you just share your dad's drive over a network and install it to your computer that way?

I can't remember if this works or causes problems generally, let alone these days

[Ameena]

Meh, I'm gonna try just leaving the comp in Sleep mode rather than turning it off - my dad's idea. Sneaky Bastard tactics .

[Crash.]

Okay, here's a perfect example of copy protection ruining the customer experience.

I just bought the driving game Grid. Of course, it will not run because the copy protection check fails. What's the point? The only thing that game publishers are achieving, is to discourage people from buying games. Pirates are not affected since they bypass copy protection immediately.

Why should I pay for a game that I cannot play when I could have saved my money and and played nothing for free?

Sheesh!

I do hope you get to finish playing Titan Quest, then maybe write a nasty message on it an mail it back to the publisher :p

[Sophia]

I've been there.

It's always fun digging around on questionable sites for no-cd hacks for games that I've bought legitimately.

[Ameena]

OH, I've got around this problem by just not turning the computer off - Sleep mode didn't work as it still stopped reading the CD drive. So I just turn the screen off and leave the computer on when I'm done with it. No problems so far .

[Gambit37]

I wouldn't like to see your electricity bill -- and what about wasting all that power for such an insignificant problem? With power prices going through the roof, and all of us needing to be more responsible with our energy consumption, I'm really surprised you think that's an acceptable solution.

[zoom]

Keeping the computer always on increases the lifetime of its harddisk(s). Plus you can have your websites online.. You are, of course right Gambit. In Ameena's case I would look to actually solve the problem (because it just plain sucks) not circumvent it(which does also suck).
Did you not find/post anything about the problem on Titan Quest forum or something? Reach the people responsible for the game??
I understand you don't want to fuss around with the computer and presumably dodgy installations all right , but this is not acceptable - plus you could probably easily enjoy the game without this irritation!

[beowuuf]

I'm sorry, I've had it with computers, and understand having no will to solve a problem, when it takes forever to work it out, has no logic to it, and will never be encountered again


We all have less free time nowadays, and the amount of time I can count losing on computer problems that have come out of nowhere, and have never seen before, is amazing

[Crash.]

It is unfortunate that sometimes the only solution many people have found to this kind of problem is to look for a nocd patch or patched executable. When the game publisher turns a blind eye once they have your money, what other choice is there?

If one has to choose between throwing away $50 and using a hack, that's not a hard decision.

As far as Titan Quest, I think the best solution is to play a non-stop marathon until you finish the game